Podcast Transcript
Biohacker Babes
Wed, Jan 31, 2024 2:30PM 1:35:25
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
mold, people, mycotoxins, building, air, molds, spores, musty smell, grow, vocs, water, day, test, breathing, moisture, data, food, babes, toxins, high
SPEAKERS
Lauren, Jason Earle, Renee
Jason Earle 00:00
J
Mold is not the problem by the way. Mold is a symptom of a moisture problem if you want to go root cause, okay? It’s moisture, its excess moisture. Mold is just the byproduct of that.
Renee 00:15
R
Hey there, welcome to the biohacker babes podcast, we are your hosts. I’m Renee, a Certified Nutritional Consultant with a master’s degree in nutrition.
Lauren 00:24
L
what’s up and I’m Lauren, Functional Diagnostic Nutrition practitioner and check movement specialist. We’re sisters and we’re joining forces to empower you to become your own biohacker and upgrade your life.
Renee 00:36
R
Our mission is to provide actionable steps so you can optimize your health, strengthen your intuition and support your body’s natural healing abilities. Because life is too short to not feel your best every single day.
Lauren 00:47
L
Thank you for joining us, and welcome to the show. Welcome to Episode 227 of the biohacker babes. My name is Lauren, I am tuning in from New York City today joined by my sister co host, Renee bells across the country in Las Vegas. What’s happening, I say Hey, say what’s happening Hey, from the dry
Renee 01:10
R
desert.
Lauren 01:12
L
Oh, hey, from the toxic urban city. We are talking about home health, home health today. Topic of the day is mold. And we do have a longer episode in store for you. But I promise every second is so valuable. You’re gonna want to hang on until the end some really, really powerful information that our guest is going to share today. So if you’ve been hold hearing more about mold, like I don’t know, in the world and the news, maybe you’ve had a mold exposure, maybe you know someone with mold illness.
There’s a lot of myths about mold a lot. And it’s not just mold in our homes, but it’s also in our foods. And our guest today does an incredible job about really thoroughly explaining the purpose of it, how we’re exposed to it, what we can do about it. So I would say the latter half of the episode is really like all the action items so important to to hang in there.
Renee 02:15
R
Yeah, yeah. I think my takeaway today was just the how our home is like an extension of ourselves. And I love that. Oh my god. The analogy was super cool. Definitely stay tuned for that. But I mean, as a biohacker I definitely try and get outside a lot, but I still spend a lot of time indoors. like way more than our ancestors did. So even I’m kind of rethinking not just the mold piece but like, what is the health of my home?
Even like the VOC is right I I’ve always loved a newer construction that comes with its own bucket of problems I would say so I think I’m gonna go check my air doctor, see what’s going on? Do I need to change my filter it’s just a lot of food for thought. I’m like what’s going on in my house and how it might be impacting me so much. He
Lauren 03:00
L
made such a great point about you know, as a health enthusiast or health advocate, we spend you know, so much effort changing our our food and our beauty care products. But what about the air that we’re breathing? What did he say we breathe 30,000 pounds of air in a day? Yes, I remember that correctly. Yeah. Yeah, it’s a huge amount of neglect when it comes to health, considering the air that we breathe, so I think you’re gonna be a changed human by the end of this podcast and, and have some really clear, accessible actionable items that you can take.
If you think that you need to take that next step. So we’re going to bring on Jason Earle for you and he is a man on a mission. He’s an adoring father of two boys in diapers and curable entrepreneur and indoor air quality Crusader. He is founder and CEO of Got Mold? and the creator of the Got Mold? Test Kit. The realization that his moldy childhood at home was the underlying cause of his extreme allergies and asthma led him into the healthy home business in 2002, leaving behind a successful career on Wall Street. Over the last two decades, Jason has personally performed countless sick building investigations, solving many medical mysteries along the way, helping 1000s of families recover their health and peace of mind. He has been featured or appeared on Good Morning America Extreme Makeover Home Edition, the Dr. Oz Show, entrepreneur, wired, the biohacker babes podcast and more.
Renee 04:31
R
Great addition there all right. Oh, Jason is just such an amazing human can’t wait to bring him on. Oh, and has a world Guinness record but you’ll hear about the episode fun fact. All right, let’s
Lauren 04:43
L
do it. Welcome, Jason to the biohacker babes.
Jason Earle 04:46
J
So good to be here.
Lauren 04:48
L
Yes. Okay, I just heard you at dragonfly do your TEDx 10 minute talk very concise, very powerful and effective. And you are our first moldy on the show first time talking about Old very excited to bring this to our audience thinks mold exposure, mold illness, the idea of mold is gaining more and more intention. And we’re very quickly. demonizing mold like mold is bad. So I would love to kick off with what is mold? What is it purpose? Because I don’t think it’s all bad. It’s not inherently bad. What is mold here to do? Or to tell us? Oh, I
Jason Earle 05:24
J
think that’s a great place to start. By the way, it was great seeing you ladies at dragonfly You did such a such a great job. emceeing it was it was a real pleasure. I spent some some quality time. I’m glad we did that. Actually, before the show. I feel like that was that was really it was fortuitous. So yeah, absolutely. And it’s a pleasure to be here. So I’ve been looking forward to this. So mold is mold is a four letter word for a lot of people. But it doesn’t need to be that way.
You know, mold is nature’s digestive organism, its job is to turn dead plant matter into dirt. Right. So if we didn’t have that, it would be a mess here. In fact, there was a time when we didn’t have mold and fungi. And it’s called the Carboniferous period where trees would fall down, and they didn’t rot. They didn’t decay. And that’s why we have oil and, and all that good stuff. Oh, and oil and coal. And so it was, it was necessary to not have it. But now we really need it. Because otherwise we just have piles of dead plant material everywhere. So it’s doing its job if it’s digesting these things in your yard, but not so much when it’s doing that in your living room. Right. And so when you look at Planet, our planet I actually often think of in fact, my one of my screensavers is an AI generated image of planet fungi, which I wish I could share with with listeners, but I’ll send it to you separately. And that’s how I think about the planet really, you know, this planet, fungi weren’t a water planet, you know.
And, and mold operates in a very important area. And it’s and you know, people vilify mold, because, of course, it causes a lot of illness. But it’s also been super hot. I mean, it’s where we get a lot of antibiotics, it’s where we get a lot of delicious flavors, like soy sauce, and of course, beer and wine and cheese, and, you know, the, the list goes on and on. And so so to just sort of pigeonhole it into this dangerous thing is to is to miss the fact that it’s really about how we interact with it, that matters, more so than itself, right? It’s like, you know, it, there’s no good or bad that only thinking makes it so. Right.
And so, so those labels in those judgments are I think, ill informed. So anyway, the, the, the when when we think about mold, in general, there’s there’s also this hyper focus on mycotoxins, which, so for the for, for everyone who’s sort of new to this subject, mold produces three things when it grows spores, which are like the Hardy reproductive capsules, kind of like seeds, their job is to go forth and multiply, right, go forth and prosper. And so they also carry little bits of toxins on them that are called mycotoxins. And, and but these are only specific molds out of the 100,000 or so molds that are known only about 100 species produce these toxins. So it’s a very small amount.
It’s a rounding error, really. And so there’s a disproportionate focus on them as if it’s the total source of illness. And the data on this is very strongly. It’s in opposition to that, that mycotoxins are responsible for a lot of illness, but not most of it. And so, so those toxins are what gets vilified. But if you go into a moldy building, or a building where there’s mold related illness, those molds are not necessarily always present there. So that tells you it tells you something right, there’s must be something else going on. Now the spores can cause allergies and the mycotoxins can cause all sorts of organ disruptions and metabolic disruptions and stuff like that if you get a lot of them. But the secret of this is that you’re actually getting a lot of food which we can unpack later. There’s there’s a lot of mold in our food supply mycotoxin in our food supply.
So the third thing that molds produce, so we get spores, we got the mycotoxins, which are these chemicals that are used to inhibit the growth of other organisms. It’s a competitive tool. It’s like chemical warfare on a microscopic level, okay with these guys. But the third piece, and this is the most interesting piece to me, is the musty smell. The musty smell is, is is the often the first clue. But it’s also a major health hazard. And this is, this is new stuff. I mean, most people have thought about the musty smell for ages as just this aesthetic nuisance mold in the basement smell. But but the data on this is fascinating. First of all kids exposed to the musty smell have doubled the risk of asthma, developing asthma later.
And also recent animal studies have shown that it’s neurotoxic. In fruit fly studies, they found that the fruit flies stop producing dopamine, they stop reproducing, they fly down instead into light, which is their instinctive nature. They develop mitochondrial damage, local motor dysfunction, premature death, I mean, this is like and this is just one of the compounds is found and most of the must see most of the musty odors is kind of a potpourri of chemicals. And anyone who’s ever had mold related illness or spent time in a musty building will tell you that they didn’t feel right? cognitive impairment, sometimes people can’t go to sleep, sometimes people can’t wake up, right? It affects you in so many different ways. But the musty smell is produced by all molds during growth. So here’s that’s the key right, mycotoxins, 100 out of 100,000. Whereas the musty smell, all of them produce this. And these chemicals are called M VOCs.
And M stands for microbial, and VOCs are volatile organic compounds. Now, many people listening to this have heard of VOCs, most popular one is alcohol. Lots of people enjoy that. But we also know that it causes cognitive impairment, right. And so if you’re breathing stuff, or drinking this stuff, it can, it can cause you to have some shifts in consciousness. Some of them are pleasant, some of them are unpleasant. Gasoline is comprised of a whole a whole, a whole suite of VOCs, benzene, Talimena, industrial solvents, bleach, the active ingredient in bleach, which is sodium hypochlorite, is a voc. So it’s it’s liquid at one temperature and room temperature evaporates. And so so it’s extremely important to keep your nose peeled, if you will, you know, you want to really keep your senses acute, acutely aware of the slightest whiff of that because that’s usually the first clue, right? mold grows within 24 to 48 hours of a moisture problem. And the first thing will be the scent.
By the time it’s visible, it’s been growing for a while. And so so the idea here is that we we have, we have essentially over time, and we talked about this a dragonfly from 1945, Around the World War Two, after the baby boomers started having a there’s a need for faster and cheaper building materials, we slowly started changing from these homes that were built to last homes that are built with paper mache, was sheet raw, and then we tighten them up for energy efficiency, and then we slathered them with toxic chemicals. And then we wonder why we’re having asthma, allergies, autoimmune disease, you know, at skyrocketing rates.
And really, what it comes down to is moisture control. That’s what this all comes down to. So the good news is, and here is the good news that unlike the outdoor environment, where we have very little control the indoor environment, we have an enormous potential for control if we choose to exercise it. And so it all begins with awareness, which is what we’re here for. And so the reality is, is that we live on a water planet, and we have a huge, huge amount of fungi on the planet, which is usually our friend. But we need to learn how to navigate around it, you know, being afraid of mold, which is that which is a very common thing is extremely counterproductive.
It’s like being scared of gravity, or being scared of sunlight. It is such a normal part of our environment, that what I encourage people to do is, is think about this as something to be discerning about to be aware of, it’s like, you wouldn’t be afraid of sugar, you just know that you don’t want to have a lot of that in your diet, right. And you also know that it’s gonna make its way into your diet the same way you know that mold is going to be a part of your life at some point, right? It’s up there with death and taxes, it’s a guaranteed, but how you navigate that is the deal. And so I encourage people to be discerning instead of fearful. Because if anyone who’s listening to this is, is going through a mold issue, I will I will say that I’ve never seen anybody truly get better until they’ve gotten rid of the fear.
Renee 13:19
R
Huge. That’s powerful. I mean, I think a lot of I mean, fear in general, and people are really sick. I mean, you see it they like cling on to fear of whatever. And it’s like, yeah, that’s totally gonna hold you back from the healing journey, you need to go on what you said about the buildings like I’m always curious, like, what did our ancestors have to deal with? Right? So mold, this is not something new? Is it really the way that we’re building? Buildings? Is that what started this new cascade? Like, was this not really an issue for humans before?
Jason Earle 13:49
J
It was an issue in if you lived in a cave? Underground? You know, like, if you were literally, you know, if you if you chose badly back then right, and you were underground in a damp space, you probably experienced mold related illness back then to you know, if you were, but because it had to do with the amount of these things concentrate. So it’s the dose makes the poison, right Paracelsus godfather of of toxicology, the dose makes the poison. And actually small amounts of mold exposure are not only not harmful, but actually beneficial for most people. So your lungs are a naked interface. And so you’re getting data from this stuff, learning what’s normal in your environment, right? So there’s the hygiene hypothesis. There’s the there’s the biodiversity hypothesis, but essentially, you know, we need these microbes in our world to create protections against the nasty microbes.
But also we need the data to know what’s normal in our environment, because when we go outside, we’re going to need to, to experience this stuff. But when you’re indoors and the stuff is, is blooming, and you’ve got lots and lots of spores, or you’ve got those microbial gases, then we go from medicine to poison And so it’s really the concentration of it that occurs indoors. And this is a byproduct of our of our building practices. First of all the materials we use are very mold friendly. And then second of all, we’re very, we’re very airtight buildings. And then we’ve also done this crazy thing, which is where we start using toxic chemicals and are built in, and you know, to line in our buildings and put them all over our stuff.
And it’s just unbelievable. I mean, the printing the personal care products, and the cleaning products, and the building materials and the finishes and the, and the stain resistant coatings, all that stuff is so outrageously toxic. And what we do is we just close it up in a box, we retrieve it 20,000 times a day, it’s literally insane. I mean, and then we wonder why we have all these statistics. So, so the modern building practices are at the core of why we have this hyper exposure, and also the fact our society now doesn’t leave, we don’t leave buildings, right? We spend 90% of our time indoors. And we go from building to, to car and then car to building. You know, and so like there’s even in our car that new house smell, which he’s talked about at Dragon Fire, right? This is this is like, you know, this isn’t this is not a good thing. And this is sweet smell we attribute it to, to achievement, right? Like it’s so good. So good, right? Smells great. Like, that. Smell smells so good. But so does the gas station.
Lauren 16:18
L
Oh, yeah. You don’t like the high that feels good. Yeah.
Jason Earle 16:22
J
But but we know that that’s not like a like a truly good smell. Right? That’s it smell. It feels good. But it’s not so good. Yeah. And so so it’s that it’s that same thing that we need to sort of disassociate from that. And so it’s a combination of building practices, building materials, and then social behavior. And it’s, it’s like a perfect storm. I mean, it’s it’s literally a perfect storm. You know, there’s a great book called never home alone, which I highly recommend to anyone who’s interested in what’s going on in our home, below the, you know, below the surface here, like on the microbial level. And it’s written by a guy named Rob Dawn, who’s a professor at UNC. And it’s He’s so funny, but he thinks that we should rename our species Homo endurace Instead of Homo sapiens, because we Yeah. We really have we’ve kind of retrenched into these these these synthetic shells. And and then we wonder why, why we’re having all these problems. So there’s no short answer on that. It’s a compounding thing.
Renee 17:27
R
Yeah. And I will say like, I personally, I think I fortunately haven’t suffered too badly from it. But I’ve always lived in new construction, like since 2004, brand new dorm brand new apartment brand new house, another brand new apartment, like just I love the newness, I love the modern. I’m not like a fixer upper type. But with that comes all of those exposures.
Lauren 17:49
L
Yeah, Jerry number three
Jason Earle 17:54
J
manatee suits to sanitize. And then it’s also got these chemicals in it. And the thing about the chemicals, it’s interesting is that we talked about VOCs. And that’s the manmade stuff. And that’s what you’re gonna get from your paints, and finishes and floorings and all that stuff, right. And then you have the M VOCs. One of the most common things that we see is people who have a lot of exposure to mold, especially if they live in a basement apartment, or just a really musty space for a long period of time, they often become sensitive to chemicals, they become sensitive to fragrances, they develop what’s called a toxicant induced loss of tolerance or tilt, which is a kind of like MCs, or multiple chemical sensitivity.
Claudia Miller is a is a researcher who’s who coined the term tilt, which I think is brilliant. And it’s this idea of the opposite of addiction where within addiction you need more and more and more to get lesser and lesser effect. In this case, less or less and less and less exposure actually has a disproportionately higher effect. So it’s, it’s, it’s a it’s a tricky thing. And so, so what we see is this overlap, where also chemical scent of people exposed to a lot of chemicals, new buildings, for example, you know, people who live who were in an occupational setting where they might be exposed to a lot of petroleum, solvents and stuff like that. They tend to become mold sensitive.
So the VOC the body goes, whoa, enough, you know, because mold is a chemical factory. And there’s just no two ways about it. If you looked at me, if you look at it, just chemically it’s a chemical factory, between the toxins it produces, and then the and then the gases it produces. And the only problem with that is like I said, when it’s doing it indoors and in a closed setting, otherwise it’s you know, outside of blows around and so our ancestors had a lot of ventilation, you know, their their buildings didn’t have insulation in the walls, they weren’t caulk tightly to save energy. You know, they’d have to burn the fire constantly just to keep that area warm. Forget the house. It was just that room. That was warm because all the heat would just disperse.
Well, that also allowed pollutants to disperse it also allowed water that gets into the walls or What are they gets into dry out quickly. So it’s a known and Building Sciences drying potential, our buildings have very low drying potential now, whereas before, they had an unbelievable dry potential, and the materials themselves didn’t support fungal growth. So again, these things just just compounded on top of each other. It’s not one thing in particular, it’s a set of practices that over the course of the last 60 70 years, have set us up for the situation.
Renee 20:26
R
And
Lauren 20:28
L
so I’m just curious about the people that are having those that crossover intolerance. Is it like a hyper vigilance in this system? Is it also maybe like poor detoxification? Because I know like I’ve walked into a space with someone that’s had mold illness, and they react and I don’t so obviously, there’s something different in our biochemistry, that’s the the alerting system is totally different, right? Like, you’re not guaranteed to get sick walking into that room. It depends on environment, it’s coming into so what’s actually going on in the immune system, you know, or detoxification, everybody
Jason Earle 21:00
J
Jason Earle 21:00
J
is different. And, but there and it’s in it’s still really an emerging field, like how this stuff really triggers you because again, it’s a chemical factory, right. So you’ve got and again, taking mycotoxins and pushing that aside, because that’s a conversation about mold and food really more. Right, you’ve got a Venn diagram here, mold and food is mycotoxins, and then you’ve got musty smell spores and some mycotoxins. But and then they overlap. And that overlap is what I call overload.
Right? And so there’s, there’s a combination of things. I think that’s happening here, first of all, multifactorial allergic pathways, inflammatory pathways, and then of course, toxic toxicity. And that toxicity can be from the musty smell, because of course, these are solvents, in large amounts, you know, these things are very deleterious to human health. And then of course, the the mycotoxins what you that you’re eating and your diet.
So these things compound on top of each other again, and so the there’s but there’s interesting evidence because there’s a sort of a fourth thing, which is this fight or flight response that a lot of people would mold sensitivities have, and evokes this adrenal response or this or shutting down and you know, like, for example, people with chronic sinusitis, or asthmatics, what is their body doing when they’re having an exposure? Their body’s saying, I can’t have any more of that, right, the protective Stop, stop that shuts down and well, this is really an impractical, physical response. You kind of need to keep operating.
Lauren 22:34
L
Yeah, maybe overachieved?
Jason Earle 22:36
J
Yeah, so that’s, that’s in many ways, that’s a, that’s the body’s way of panicking. And saying, you know, like, we need to save you at the cost of your own life. You know, we’re gonna save your life by by, by stopping this breathing thing, you know? Yeah. Thanks, buddy. Thanks a lot. Yeah, we’re friends like you who needs enemies. But and this, this thing happens, I think, when there’s a there’s there are nerves in the in the face, that trigeminal nerve in particular, that that is considered to be a primary source of irritation for these things. And that kicks right into the autonomic nervous nervous system. And so the body just goes, whoa, okay, we gotta get out of here, right?
And so, it’s kind of that fight or flight, it’s like, Get out of here, just leave the building. And all these all sorts of inflammation pops up. And so then next thing, you know, you got the triggers on these other pathways, especially the inflammatory and the allergic pathways, which are tightly tied into the autonomic nervous system, right? So so so these things are the compensatory response to this fight or flight thing that is so visceral, that it that that’s what precedes these other interactions, and causes all of this sort of this, this, this cascade of symptoms. And that’s why these people become so fearful. And I say, these people, I’m, I am one of those people, right? Like, I grew up like this. And so I don’t I don’t mean to sound like you know, the other because it’s not other it’s, you know, it’s anyone who’s who has been exposed to this understands what it’s like to feel like your life is at risk for being in a building where everyone else feels fine, or other people are not nearly as affected.
Lauren 24:11
L
Or you’re the crazy one, we’re gonna move Airbnb or hotel rooms, like, this is your fault. Yeah.
Jason Earle 24:17
J
And it’s also it’s very isolating, and it’s enough to make it That’s enough to make you crazy anyway, this is your marginalize. And it happens all the time you find people living in a house, one person’s got major symptoms, it gets marginalized, you know, finally, someone entertains the idea of of having an inspection or testing done, that they find something that gets remediated, and it’s the person with the major symptoms feels better immediately, you know, and then suddenly you talk to the other people and they go, you know, I’m sleeping through the night and you know, I’m not quite as pissed off as I was, and you know, I’m I blow my nose, you know, every 15 minutes.
Suddenly, this they have since they had symptoms that they weren’t equating to this because their baseline of their health had gone to a point where they except that that is normal. And they didn’t realize that their indoor air which you breathe again, 13 to 15 times a minute, 20,000 times a day. And now all day because we don’t leave the house is is your largest environmental exposure, but it’s hiding in plain sight. And it’s no you can’t touch it, taste it or smell it or feel it until it’s too bad, or there’s not enough of it. And so it’s really tricky stuff. It’s hard it is, it is. So it’s like, you can’t smell your own breath.
Right? You know, like, we’re so close to it, that you unless you do that, right. But otherwise you don’t know, we’re so close to it that unless you focus on it, and really make this a point of awareness. Air is an afterthought. And but it has this overwhelming impact on us, such that when you get it straight, I believe that healthy indoor air is the number one biohack. You know, it is the underlying biohack of all bio hacks, right? Get your air straight, get your water straight, get your food straight, and then you can build on that you can optimize. But if you don’t get your air straight, nothing you can’t supplement you can’t you can’t nourish, you can’t affirm or meditate your way out of that. You know it? Is that fundamental? Yeah,
Renee 26:14
R
well, I mean oxygen itself, right? I mean, a lot of biohackers say, you know, breathwork is the number one biohacker, whatever, because we can go without breathing. We can go wild without water. We can go wild without food. But we’re talking about breath work. But yeah, what are you inhaling? That makes perfect sense. I mean, that’s like your first offense
Lauren 26:33
L
for going to a breathwork class tonight, I’m definitely gonna be on alert. Like if I walk in and smell. I’m out of there. I’m gonna go do breath work in the park,
Jason Earle 26:41
J
which is where it should be done? Probably, you know,
Lauren 26:43
L
probably but you know, in New York City and the winters like, what are you supposed to do? You know?
Jason Earle 26:48
J
Yeah, totally. And New York City is tough, too. And cities are tough in general, because, you know, you have very little control over the the buildings and they’re often old with, you know, based on antiquated building codes and lackluster ventilation
Lauren 27:01
L
and you know, no ventilation in the bathroom.
Jason Earle 27:04
J
You don’t even have the passive vent that that that one little that one little vent?
Lauren 27:09
L
I do? I don’t think it does very much. When you just passive, I guess explain it. To me, it doesn’t seem like it’s doing anything.
Jason Earle 27:15
J
There should be a fan on the roof that’s connected to a stack that goes all the way down all the kitchens and bathrooms all connect to it. But the reality is, is that they get disconnected, they fall apart. And fans often turned off because they’re trying to save electricity, right? So so those things usually don’t work. What you do is you take a piece of toilet paper and go put it up next to it. And if it sticks to the thing, then it’s working.
Lauren 27:37
L
And that means not working. Yeah. Well,
Jason Earle 27:40
J
you have no ventilation. Yeah,
Lauren 27:41
L
no, no, we have an event. There’s no ventilation through the vents. It’s just for show currently, yeah.
Jason Earle 27:49
J
I lived in an apartment like that. And in the city, too. And it’s tough. I mean, you know, mold on the ceilings. And you know, it’s just it’s inevitable, right? So this comes down to, you know, you’ve got to be even more vigilant in a situation like that. No doubt. Yeah.
Renee 28:02
R
Oh, Jason, you seem like you’re kind of like the canary in the coal mine. Like Warren, you were saying like water, some people react. But would you say you’re the canary in the coal mine, that’s why you’ve been more aware of this.
Jason Earle 28:15
J
I think I was, I’m no longer and that’s, that’s, that’s a testament to, to the human immune system and our adaptability. And also, I think I was fortunate enough to get out of it before, before, before adolescence, or you know, before my, my, the hardwiring, really kind of kicked in. So, you know, when I was four years old, I was falsely diagnosed with cystic fibrosis and I was allergic to literally everything in my environment. So it was everything every single test that they that they tested me for was was was was positive. And my dad said that when he saw me during the they put you in a papoose like a straitjacket for toddlers, you know, and and what they expose back and then they draw grid on your back into the antigens.
And my dad said, I looked at the ladybug, just like red swollen back with dots all over it. So, so I looked on inhalers, and this stuff called breathy and it wasn’t even an inhaler. It was before inhalers. It was like a crushed up hill. It was like hailing powder is disgusting. And, and then one of my folks put up moved out when I was 12. All my symptoms when why, and I never had to use an inhaler. Again, not allergic to anything. Except for bad attitudes still have still break out in hives lawyers do sometimes but you know, you’re not alone. But, but the but the it was completely dismissed as adolescent remission at the time. My grandfather had grown up has asthma as well. And so, so fast forward, I ended up my mother died suddenly when I was 14 suicide, which is relevant to this story, actually.
And I was diagnosed Lyme disease, which disproportionately affects those with mold sensitivities and the science behind that still not really well understood biotoxin detoxification pathways. There’s a bunch of different stuff going on there. And I actually think antibiotics have a lot to do with it. Antibiotics are the primary tool for that. And antibiotics are primarily fungal and or bacterial toxins in a concentrated amount. And so I have a feeling that there might be a relationship there. But that’s poorly understood. And, and then I ended up through a crazy series of events. I ended up dropping out of high school and working full time at the gas station and saving money to get my GED and psychology early and I got recruited out of the gas station by a guy who worked on Wall Street. And a year later, I was a stockbroker. And somehow another ended up being the youngest stockbroker in history with a Guinness World Record. So that was crazy. But I know that you guys are good. You have a Guinness World Record to know.
Lauren 30:39
L
I knew this was coming. I was called out for saying that I had a world Guinness record at dragonfly. Jason’s like you, because I do shit you actually do. And that’s really amazing, especially at a gas station where you just they’re like, trying to smell the fumes. Should we all
especially at a gas station where you just they’re like, trying to smell the fumes. Should we all go there and like risk? The VOCs maybe, man,
Jason Earle 31:02
J
you know, sometimes you just gotta run into the fire, you know? Just don’t might imagine it. Yes. It was. It was it was it was one of the things I do very well in garages too. I was later recruited by Mario Gabelli, who is a self made billionaire at the parking garage where I where I was getting my car about seven years later, and went to go work for him. So I do really well in garages apparently. But I, I had gotten very disenchanted, though nine years on Wall Street will do that to anybody. And my mom had raised me to, to, to, to really focus on contribution to the greater good. My mom was a nurse gave to a fault. And she was just, she had the servant’s heart, which was part of her downfall.
But, I would volunteer at the hospitals were where she was where she worked during the summer, I think she mostly had me go there. So I didn’t burn the house down. But But I learned a lot about, you know, people in need and, and the joy of service. And so Wall Street didn’t, didn’t really ring true to that, you know. And so when I decided that I wanted, I was done with it. After the.com bubble burst, I went traveling. And while I was away, I read a story about a guy who’d gotten sick from the hotel where he was an employee, and he blamed the mold. He developed adult onset asthma, and allergies to everything. And I was like, oh, that sounds familiar kind of my life in reverse, you know.
And so call my dad from a payphone which probably isn’t there anymore, and and said, Hey, do you think we had mold in at Alton road? And he’s like, of course, we had mushrooms in the basement. Why do you ask? And? Yeah, typical 1970s parent, right? Yeah, it’s awesome. Those, you know, like, here’s some more for you in your cereal in here in some more fruit
Lauren 32:45
L
snacks and hash some sugar on top of it.
Jason Earle 32:50
J
I mean, really, it’s amazing. So yeah, so I immediately became fascinated with the idea that buildings can make you sick, that that is an idea that had really captured my attention. And still to this day drives me because I think that it’s a blind spot for most people. The relationship with your building I think is the most, I think it’s the most important relationship you have in terms of your health, longevity. It’s like an Exo scan or an exoskeleton. And I like to joke around, we’re a little bit like hermit crabs in the sense that we don’t do very well without our shell. But we it’s also something that we just completely disregard as these these these static boxes, you live work and store your stuff in it.
And yes, you buy and sell it, maybe you make some money, maybe you don’t. And, and it is it is a it is an it’s an it’s a crucial part of your immune system. And that’s why I’m laughing you would never paint your body with with the paints that you paint your walls with. Right, but you end up inhaling, it becomes part of your body anyway. So you have to think about the same way we have personal care products. If you care about your personal care products, think about your building the same way. It’s like an excess skin. And it’s also the it’s also immediately trans transmits into your lungs, which then there’s no filter, you know, you are the filter. You know, you are an air filter.
Think about that, you know, so whatever is there you know if it’s healthy, nutritious air with oxygen, which is a fuel, and it’s detoxifying and it’s and it’s energizing, and it’s you know, it’s a nutrient you know, we breathe 30 pounds of air every day. It’s not crazy 30 pounds of air and I read that once I said lad cat as you come up with that. So I took my took a balloon I got grabbed the jewelers scale I brought my four year old son over I said check this out. We weighed the balloon tech tear it it blew the balloon up weighed the balloon, shernoff point six grams do the math on it, it’s 30 pounds air, you know, 28 pounds or something like that. So it is it is your consuming air you’re not breathing it you’re you’re consuming it.
Right? And so you started thinking about that way as a nutrient. Then you know, think about the same way with food right empty calories. You know, are poisonous calories versus nutritious, delicious, you know sustaining calories. And it’s the same thing with air. It’s just a different perspective, you know?
Renee 35:11
R
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Lauren 37:11
L
ludicrous when you when you say it like that, and you talk to people, it’s like we’re consuming toxins or like no, I don’t drink alcohol or eat processed food, the air that you breathe, I’m just thinking of my air doctor that’s in the corner, if I open that filter, just black, and I’m hoping that it’s you know, saving me from breathing some of that and but if we could compare lungs to that, and you’re right, we obsess over our beauty care products. I suppose that a lot of people don’t even want to consider it because it’s harder to change those circumstances. Right? Not everyone can just get up and move tomorrow. Well,
Jason Earle 37:43
J
I think there’s a lot of, well, first of all, when I say these things to a lot of people, they go they
I think there’s a lot of, well, first of all, when I say these things to a lot of people, they go they shut down. Right? That because there’s either a budget constraints or some other limitation husband, wife, boss, whatever, landlord that you know, just general resistance. Just don’t Don’t tell me. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of people don’t wanna hear about the food too. I mean, you’ve talked about people that you you guys know this, you talk to people about their food, you might as well be talking about religion or politics.
Lauren 38:09
L
Oh, yeah. Don’t eat peanuts. Oh, God, no. What what do you take my peanuts away for me?
Jason Earle 38:14
J
Right, my, my eggs. You know, like, I had that because I had to stop eating eggs because of food sensitivity. I just learned that it was causing me joint pain. And that was a grieving process, man, when when I when I was first I was looking at that going no, don’t tell me I can’t eat X, you know? Yeah,
Renee 38:30
R
eggs are worse. Yeah. That’s a hard one. And
Jason Earle 38:34
J
they’re delicious. And they’re supposed to be the perfect food. And so so you know, people get so when people are, are presented with this, they can look at this as an opportunity or an obstacle. And I think that you initially it’s like agreement, you have to go through this process where you recognize that, okay, fine. This is literally table stakes. This is like fundamental. And then as soon as you realize that you have a lot of control. But the problem is most people don’t know what to do.
They don’t have the next steps. There’s just seems like this because it’s nebulous by definition. air, is there anything more nebulous than air? And so this, this is a very difficult thing, and there’s so much crap out there, you want to go online and look up? Holy crap. I mean, there’s so many so much junk science, I mean, you know, there are there are air purifiers out there that don’t actually purify the air that create particles. Like, I mean, I’ve tested air purifiers, like these auric air machines that produce more particles, then then then they remove I’ve even seen similar things with the molecule.
Lauren 39:33
L
Or can we ask you about every doctor on the air? Maybe I don’t want to know I know. My next question.
Jason Earle 39:37
J
And one of our partners actually and I only partner with with with companies that I’ve tested
and I’ve got he’s got all sorts of you know, fun gadgets and stuff. This is a laser particle counter. And so this actually measures the the airborne particulate matter down to point three microns. And so I test these things. Yeah, no, this is this is a fun toy.
Lauren 39:58
L
Yeah, we bragged on The molecules before I’m like, they made them real pretty and just pulled people in thing.
Jason Earle 40:03
J
Yes, great marketing DC back to marketing engine. And if you ask them about their science, they will, they will provide you with studies that they paid for that very questionable data points. And so listen, the bottom line is air filters, filter air, they don’t kill stuff, they don’t zap stuff. zapping stuff creates other particles, think about that you’re burning party, you don’t vaporize it, right? We know that you no matter can’t be created or destroyed, energy can’t be created or destroyed. It changes form. So where does it go, it doesn’t just become like, pure air. It doesn’t make any sense.
So any thoughts of it. And even the VOCs VOCs are complex molecules in many cases. And when you smash them, they they they they break apart into their, different constituents. And then they like to reform into different stuff there, they’ve got attractions to each other, right. And so they’ll reform one of the most common things they reform into is formaldehyde, which is not what you want in your building. So yeah, so that’s just the unintended consequences. If you want to clean your area, the same way you clean your house, you remove the dirt, you remove the particles, you remove the sources of these things.
And that’s what a filter like air doctor does. It’s got a physical media and a fan that blows air through immediate the media, which captures the particles and then it goes through the HEPA filter will capture the particles. And then it goes through the carbon, which is that dark, heavy layer, and that captures the VOCs. And then and then and then on the other side of that you have air that’s that’s been purified at least to the point of 99.75% reduction in particles according to HEPA. That’s the HEPA standard. The VOCs, you know that things can get saturated, depending upon the VOC levels in your house. So you got to watch those, you got to replace those more regularly than the HEPA. But I’m a big fan of Jasper air purifiers is Mike Feldstein amazing, an amazing guy, amazing company.
And that’s on the high end. I love air doctors. I’ve got them all over my house. I also love mattify air meds why they’re there. They have some really affordable units. You know, for small apartments, they have units for under 100 bucks that actually they’re they do a great job. So so there’s the point is that there’s a range right from 100 bucks to $2,000. And but the stuff that has killed claims any air purifier that has killed claims that it destroys or kills is off the list. That’s that’s the red flag right? Anytime it says no filters to replace off the list. I agree agrees?
Nobody agrees? Yeah, yeah, sharper image that’ll put them out of business was fighting with the consumer Consumer Reports about their claims and consumer report and they followed them and they ultimately collapse into their own way. The ionic breeze is, you know, molecule and ionic breeze are the same in the same category from a they’re I think they’re better boat anchors than they are air purifiers. Right? That’s how they should be used. Right?
Lauren 43:06
L
What’s up biohackers? January is here, can you believe it? And I’m kind of curious, how are you
What’s up biohackers? January is here, can you believe it? And I’m kind of curious, how are you doing with your New Year’s resolutions? I’m not really a fan of the new year new me kind of thing. I would rather recommit to all of the health strategies that I know helped me feel best, my biggest priority is always going to be getting the best night’s sleep possible. So if I could do just one thing to improve my sleep, and overall well being it’s going to be taking the number one mineral for sleep, which also helps me personally on so many levels. We all know how superhuman we feel after a good night’s sleep. So what is this magical nutrient? You guessed it?
It’s magnesium actually, and I’m talking about magnesium breakthrough by optimizers. Specifically, the seven different forms of magnesium in the settlement are involved in well over 300 Different enzymatic reactions in the body. Pretty much every function in your body gets upgraded when you take magnesium, from the quality of your sleep to your brain function to better metabolism and stress resilience. And let’s face it, even if your 2024 resolution is not to focus on your health, how are you really going to be able to achieve all of your goals without getting that quality sleep and stress resilience that you deserve? If I could just share one piece of advice, I would say go take magnesium breakthrough make it part of your daily routine so you can get the vitality you need to conquer your dreams this year.
It is all possible. If you’re ready to upgrade. Go to buy optimizers.com backslash biohacker babes and use code biohacker babes 10 to get a 10% off discount. That is by optimizers.com backslash biohacker babes promo code biohacker babes 10 Today all right biohackers to conquering your dreams in 2024 Let’s get back to the show. This has reminded me of a story I just read about the other day We know that they’re making yoga pants out of recycled plastic, right? Like, it’s kind of old news. But I just read this new story about they found this new technology where they’re burning plastics to then recycle them into clothing and home care stuff. I’m like, Oh my God, that’s like next-level toxic. Yeah, but it’s supposed to be this green sustainable, like, we’re saving the planet. It’s kind of scary,
Renee 45:23
R
I saw a pitch, Shireen posted something the other day about microplastics. In clouds, they’re testing microplastics up in the clouds. I don’t know how they’re doing that. But so maybe it’s partially because of that they’re burning the plastic. And it’s, I think we’re doing
Jason Earle 45:36
J
a lot of wrong things we are and you know, the good news is that in time, the earth will be fine, it will digest all this stuff after bucks off its back and gets rid of the parasite that’s causing all the problems, you know, there are no problems in this world, we separate the ones that humans create, there are no problems, I mean, zero, the only problems are the ones that we either perceive or create, you know, and, and the stuff that we’re doing the way we have to, we still think we have to burn stuff for energy, and that we, unfortunately, our chemical companies produce our food, our drugs and our building materials.
That’s the reality, you know, and it the chemical companies, you know, like, something’s a little off there, you know, like, there’s something to be said about, like bringing that back in and saying, Well, let’s let’s look at these things individually, and may and evaluate our choices. And so we know food is a big deal. Right? And so you’ve got to, you know, globalization has brought this thing where we have now we import what you want berries, doesn’t matter doesn’t have to be spring, you know, doesn’t have to be, you know, doesn’t matter. You get them from Peru, you know, we’ll find, yeah, we’ll find them and are from Mexico. And, and so they’re on a shipping container.
For a bit, you know, they’re probably coming from air, the berries, but a lot of these foods, you know, we learned from in the beginning the Russian invasion of Ukraine that Ukraine was the breadbasket of the world, right, we learned that, and that a lot of those ships got held at Port, but so they’re there, they’re getting all this wheat, right? They’re cleaning it, and then there are threshing around there, and then and then processing it, and then they put it on a shipping container for 30 days. On You know, it’s not conditioned, it’s not it’s not refrigerated, right. And that comes over here. So there’s, there’s really strong evidence in food scientists are very well aware of this, that 60 to 80% of our imported grains are contaminated with mycotoxins 60 to 80%. And so but it’s not just granted, it’s also it’s not seeds, spices, fermented meats. You know, on the casings, you’ve everyone’s probably seen that,
Lauren 47:35
L
what spices are high risk,
Jason Earle 47:37
J
almost any spice that comes from a third world country, believe it or not, because what they do is they don’t process them with the same methods that we do, right, they’re often harvested in the wild, left on the ground to dry, right. And so there’s no controls around this, right, they’re not grown in a you know, they’re not grown. I mean, we would do it like a factory here, which is has got his own issues. But but the way they do it is kind of like the other way around. And so so these these, these spices tend to get moldy quickly, right? Because they’re they’re just leaves, right? And what we started the conversation, but what what is mildew, it breaks down dead plant matter. And by the way, mold also grows within 24 to 48 hours of a moisture problem.
So it’s and this for is already there, because the spores are abundant in our world, you know, Kingdom fungi, check this out produces 50 Mega tons of spores every year, that’s the equivalent of 500,000, blue whales. And it put it in for context, it’s 25 times as much tea as the entire world drinks every year. And that’s just spores that you can’t see with your naked eye that are being propelled into the atmosphere, most of them land on mountains, and oceans and fields and all that stuff. But they’re also landing on all the spice, spice plants and all the and that’s why you don’t need actually, wine was developed because the spores are already on the grapes, you don’t need to actually put the fungi into grapes to ferment it. It’s already there. Wheat, same kind of thing, right? So they’re already there. And so and so you just mash it up and let magic let the magic happen. And so so when you take these, when you harvest spices, for example, and they’re not being done in a very climate-controlled way, everything is there.
And if the dampness is there, let’s say it rains for few days, well, these are you know, burdened areas where the stuff is growing, that’s why they grow so well. And so you know, if they’re not if they’re not controlling the moisture really well then then you can be sure that there’s there are issues there and then they grind them up and you’ll never see it, they’ll never know. And then so a lot of actually what the mycotoxin exposure that’s coming in from preserved meats is actually from the spices on the meats. So isn’t that wild? Yeah. So it’s
Yeah, so it’s best to source these things as best you can from locally grow it yourself local local sources. Of course you can’t do that with cumin and you know some of these more saffron but that’s not really subject to and by the way, you’re never gonna eat that much saffron anyway, but but there are certain things that that, that you have to source internationally. And so you just want to make sure that you’re dealing with the highest quality, right? You don’t want to buy the cheapest stuff, that’s for sure.
Lauren 50:09
L
Yeah, what about saffron that’s being put into like, mental health supplements like psycho biotics or supplements for mental wellness, Saffron
Jason Earle 50:18
J
was not the best example. Because if you’ve ever seen and this is a great thing, if you ever want to see something really fascinating, look up how saffron is harvested, it’s beautiful. It’s all women who, and they have to go out at a specific time in the morning because the flower opens up and they the hand harvests the little pieces out of the flowers, it’s the most delicate, beautiful thing you’ve ever seen. And so I don’t know that I really subject to this kind of dynamic where it’s like leaves being harvested thrown in the pile, let it dry. But if you really want to check something out, that’s, that’s, that’s beautiful, it’s still being done to this day, check out how saffron is harvested.
But, but so and I wouldn’t I wouldn’t worry too much about that. But you know, you start looking at things like, you know, black cumin seed oil, you know, which is a very popular, topical and ingested these days. And who knows, I mean, you know, these things are not tested, as much as they should be the there, they do test some stuff at the port, but the regulations are very, very lacks about that, then it’s very expensive. mycotoxin testing is like four bucks a sample. And also it’s not homogenous, so you can have some, you know, five pound bag of something and you test the top of it and you get one reading, you test the bottom of any of the different reading, you know, it’s not homogenous, though.
So it’s in one shipment from another and you know, like, it’s just, there’s, there’s great inconsistencies with these things. Hopefully, you know, we got some new technology emerging, we’ll be able to deal with spectrometry, which is like these, these lasers, where you can actually identify these things on the spot and that’s coming in Star Trek. You know, the future is now and it’s coming. And hopefully, but also but the most important thing is it’s local, if on the food thing, because the food exposure might when I get these people who call up and they say I’ve got my mycotoxin report here I’ve got and I’ve got mold in my body.
My standard response is probably not because mold doesn’t grow in your body. Yeasts can but mold is aerobic it requires oxygen they’re obligate anaerobes obligate a Arabs, so they they are they require oxygen so they’re not going to grow well in your in your gut right now yeasts and things like that can but but but most can’t. The mycotoxins are showing up in these in these urine reports are very clearly agriculture agriculturally originating from agriculture, okra toxin A is a very common one. Z allanon Varma toxin DLN you’ll see that a lot these are not these are not for just for multichrome buildings. I’ve never seen a fusarium infestation in the 1000s of houses that I’m testing for. But fusarium grows very well, very nicely on corn, and wheat and oats and things like that.
And so, so we see this, where there’s a conflation, where you got these two ideas that seem like they line up and so we do this all the time people do this, this is our new truth in our society, right we just take ideas and string them together and then make a story. And so the same thing with mycotoxins and, and so if you really want to look at it, you have to you have to identify if you want to get better from this stuff. You have to get your building straight. Well, the detoxing first step in detoxing is to stop toxic and so the first step is get your building straight. You’ve got a lot of control that get your diet straight, get rid of the no sugar, no grains. That’s why a lot of people do better on keto, right away. It’s you know, it’s a combination of yeah, getting rid of a process that will make everyone feel better anyway.
But you’re also getting rid of mycotoxins, it’s hidden. You’ll never be able to know it. And then then the real hidden one is restaurants. So anytime you’re going out and think about this, all the meats that we’re getting are all raised in factory farms. If you’re going to a restaurant unless it says grass fed, it’s not unless it says organic pastured it’s not. So you have to assume if it’s not labeled with special designations, it’s conventional factory farm stuff. And that’s that meat is especially conventional dairy, because the mycotoxins are lipophilic, which means the fat loving and so they get lodged in the fats and they excrete through the mammary glands.
And so they’re concentrated actually in in dairy. And now heat doesn’t kill these things. mycotoxins are extremely heat resistant. And so what you have is something called carryover effect where the animal eats moldy grains because of course, they’re not eating grass like they’re supposed to. They’re eating crappy corn. It’s GMO and sprayed with glyphosate. And you know what I mean? It’s like horrible. The more you look at it, you go, that’s our food.
Lauren 54:47
L
Yeah, it’s being poisoned to make sure that it
Jason Earle 54:51
J
lasts a long time on the shelf so that someone can buy it, but it’s not treated as food. You know, it’s treated as a product like a car or a, you know, a mug or just these inanimate things, not this life-giving source of nutrients, right. Yeah,
Lauren 55:08
L
information for our physiology. Very bad information. Yeah, really
Jason Earle 55:13
J
bad information, right. And it’s no wonder that we’re also responding, you know, adversely to exposures to mold when we’re eating the stuff and our body is going, Oh, okay. You know, it’s the allostatic load, you know, you guys were, you know, you get this toxin load that builds up, and eventually, it’s this, there’s a straw that breaks the camel’s back.
And then people blame that straw. But they’re not looking at this incredible accumulation of other stuff that’s going on between air, water, and food and shelter, right, all these components that all add up, and then you go, Oh, I mold just destroyed my life. Well, mold was the thing that woke you up, you know, and hopefully leads you on a healing journey where you can start looking at the other exposures that you have that have accumulated that it created that sensitivity that laid the groundwork for you to become hypersensitive, because it doesn’t happen accidentally. I mean, it does happen accidentally, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t happen spontaneously. It is something that’s cumulative in my experience. Right,
Renee 56:09
R
right. Yeah, we always say there’s not one root cause to why you got sick. There’s multiple root causes. And you’re right, mold is just quite often the one to blame. Because I’m curious with the home stuff. I mean, the food is, that’s all mind-blowing, definitely something we need to address. But what about in the home? How do we know if we have something we need to address? Like, this is a question from the girl that lives in the dry desert? You know, do we all need to worry about this? Should we all test our homes?
Jason Earle 56:37
J
Well, you know, I, of course, I’m in the business of selling test kits, right, like that are selling diagnostic tools for for for this. And so I’m biased toward more data. I’m a data guy, and bio hacker. Yeah, and I think this stuff should you should you should inform your decisions with actual data, you know, because because it’s, it’s available. If before it was available, then you had to operate morally more on to intuition, stuff like that. But that’s when people always ask me, you know, what’s the best Mold Test? And I always answer you, you are the best Mold Test, if you are willing to, to recapture the control, or recapture your own trust, because so many people have just handed it over to the medical institutions, they’ve just, you know, they Well, the doctor will tell me, if something What’s wrong with me, right.
And so, you know, I always encourage people to get in tune with your, senses. And so if you see something, smell something, or feel something, do something. And so, you want to be aware, again, this is an extension of your immune system, your home, right, the same way you would with your body, you want to, you want to, if you see a bump on your body, you know, you’re gonna want to do something about that, right? If there’s a really bad scent coming from somewhere on your body, you might want to take a look at that, right. So with the with the building, you’re looking for any signs of moisture, so that would be stains, discoloration, blistering paint, signs of critters, that like my shirt, because of course, we all need water, right.
And so like water bugs are a big, big clue. And you’ll see the little round those little guys that roll up in a ball, you know, the little, those nasty guys. And also spider webs are a dead giveaway, because of course, the spider webs at the top of the that might that little micro at that little food chain. And so the mold spores get eaten by the dust mites, dust mites get eaten by the by the book lice, and then and then the spiders eat those guys. And then so you got this whole chain, that this ecosystem and it all begins with moisture, right? It’s like a pool party, everyone’s invited. And so the outward manifestation is is is is is other life forms proliferating in your building.
And so, you’re looking for any signs of moisture. And so by the way, you know, spring pulling away from the wall, you know, where you’ve got expansion and contraction happening, you got these, these are the kinds of things you want to look for warped flooring, that’s uneven, tiles coming loose, you know, you want to watch out for missing golf caulk and grout around your shower. People always worry about the mold on the ground or caulk I’m looking for the missing grout and caulk because the water gets behind there. And then next thing you know, you got a really serious problem. So it’s it’s all about moisture, right? Mold is not the problem by the way.
Mold is a symptom of a moisture problem if you want to go root cause okay, if you really want to go root cause it’s moisture. It’s excess moisture. Mold is just the byproduct of that it’s the guaranteed like death and taxes. stuff gets wet and stays wet for a couple of days. It gets moldy and so so that’s your first clue. In fact, I would argue that the musty smell is is molds benevolent way of saying hey, I’m here you know there’s an imbalance tension ascension. Yeah, in fact you know you this is a kind of a fun experiment. So explain to see it, smell it, feel it. The smell is obviously the musty smell. And then the feel is any symptoms that seem to get better when you need to go I think that’s, that’s the first clue. Now, if you’re spending too much time in the building, and if you don’t know, if you feel better when you leave, then you probably need to get out more.
But ultimately, this is about saying, well, something’s not right. And then and then and then acting on that and trusting your intuition. Getting back to, to this, you know, we are we are in an amazing integrated array of precision sensors. That’s what humans are, right? We It’s incredible what we what we have. And if we can just trust that, you know, nature has done a pretty good job so far. Well, we have done to screw it up is a different conversation.
Lauren 1:00:34
L
But we’re toxic. And if you’re you have a toxic burden, your intuitions, probably not talking to you. And that’s but that’s harder. For others.
Jason Earle 1:00:42
J
It’s much harder. And it because again, the fear is really what, what blocks. A lot of that too, you know, it’s hard to know the difference between intuition and fear. And my experience has been that fear tells you a story. Intuition gives you a single idea one and we’re one it’s a very simple thing. It’s but but fear tells you stories. And if you’re telling stories, you’re in fear, if your your gut tells you one it’s a yes, no. It’s you know, it’s a simple, monosyllabic, very clear message. But if you’re telling stories, you’re in fear, so that see it smell or feel. That’s, the symptom.
But here’s, here’s a kind of a fun thought experiment. So I thought about building as an extension of your immune system, which which is, what, I love thinking about. And if you look at the building, you can even think of the building as an organism, you get the HVAC system is which is the respiratory system, right? The electrical system is like the nervous system, the plumbing is like the is like the circulatory system. And then what’s the immune cells? Are they actually this siding is like dermis, if you actually look at the cross section of the building, with the siding and the installation to fat, right, and then the bones are the studs, you know, you can really see. And by definition, if you look it up, and Westeros is an organism is a system of life-sustaining systems, essentially, right likened to a living creature.
And so that’s like the second definition. And so, so I’m not the first person to probably think about this this way. But I think about the immune system. And you know, well, what’s that? Well, that’s you, you’re the immune system. You know, buildings have a birthday, and potentially a death day. And the longevity is largely driven by how well you care for it. Right? You are the immune system. And if in the musty smell studies with the fruit flies, the mitochondrial damage was one of the most interesting parts for me. And so is it, I would actually think that like an OS to the mitochondria in our building, right, so we’re the powers that were that were the ones creating all making sure everything works.
And, you know, and maintaining things, if we’re doing it, well, then the building’s healthy. And when we fail to do that the building gets second, when the building is sick, we get sick. And then when the building heals, we heal and the building gets sick through aches and pains that develop over time due to maintenance issues, and water gets in, right? Well, buildings failed, usually with shedding wind and water, that’s where they begin to fail. And so when the water gets in, it develops like inflammation. That’s mold. Mold is the first sign of the building’s inflammation. And this musty smell is that pain signal saying a, you know, I need some attention over here.
And so I would argue the mold actually giving you a little warning, say, Hey, I’m ready, I’m going to eat your house. So. So you got to do something about this. And if you don’t, then it becomes chronic dampness, which is chronic inflammation, right? And chronic inflammation is its own disease, and you keep letting that go. And eventually it becomes cancer in the building, which is rot, and then buildings collapse, they literally die from being left to to allow that that acute inflammation, chronic inflammation, ignore it, ignore it ignore. And we’ve seen this with people where they do that same thing, right, ignore it ignore. And next thing, you know, you’re reading about them in the obituaries.
And so the same thing happens here with our buildings. So our relationship with our building is symbiotic. It needs us we need it. You know, and so, you know, we’d love to anthropomorphize cars and boats and stuff, you know, people put their names on it. And I would love to, I want to introduce the idea of naming our homes like they do in the UK, you know, like, you know, name your home, you know, get personal with it, and get to know it, right, get it you’ve done development, you are in an intimate relationship with it. Whether or not you’re engaging at that level or not, is a matter of awareness and perspective.
Renee 1:04:26
R
Yeah, I love that
Lauren 1:04:27
L
analogies so much. And you’ve really made it sound like mold can be a gift. But often you know, we see it as a sign or a symptom was just supposed to kill or blow up or ignore just like most signs and symptoms and health but such a like gentle warning sign perhaps.
Jason Earle 1:04:43
J
I think mold is a gift I listen, mold is amazing stuff. And if you look at this, the more I know about mold, the more amazed I am. It’s really it’s there’s genius in every single Spore, you know it can it has a library of enzymes that it can produce depending upon what material it lands on, and so like what single cell Do you know, that has a library of resources, you know, and, and that knows exactly what to do and just does it in this beautiful, elegant way. And if you look at it microscopically, it’s beautiful too. And it’s, it’s just this thing that we, we’ve set a stage.
We’ve, it’s like, it’s like, if you it’s like if you actually invited, just left your front door open. And suddenly homeless people started, people did they just came in and moved in and started eating all your stuff in your fridge? You know, like, and you’re like, What are they doing here? You know, like, but you end up the doors open and you haven’t gotten done anything about this. And eventually, they’re going to actually have rights, you know, like, you’re not gonna be able to get rid of them. And so, the
Lauren 1:05:48
L
leaky gut analogy, all are welcome. In your gut,
Renee 1:05:51
R
you let them in. And
Jason Earle 1:05:53
J
when you say wait, I did it there was it was it was implied they were welcomed, the
when you say wait, I did it there was it was it was implied they were welcomed, the door was open. And we do the same thing by building our buildings out of paper mache, clothes and stuff up water gets in doesn’t get out, you know, the stuff gets wet gets moldy very quickly. And then we’re like, why both molds killing me? Well, no, you are our society, this whole thing is set set the stage. Now people hearing this, you have no excuse. People who didn’t don’t know this stuff. They have, they have they have, you know, plausible deniability. But, now, you can’t unsee this, I hope. And that’s my goal.
My goal is to be the thing you can’t unsee when it comes to this, so and then engaging this in a benevolent or in a productive manner, right? Because there’s, there’s an opportunity here to turn this into a positive. And I also think that the positive to this is that the more people get sick from it, the more people talk about it, the more people are aware of it, and then change can happen. And then you know, when you’re doing a renovation, you can use a paperless wallboard, you don’t need to use the crappy paper mache stuff that they saw at Lowe’s and Home Depot, you can lose novio see products they’re available.
Now, you know why? Because the consumers have started to demand at the same reason Walmart is the largest purveyor of organic food. Now, it’s not because they thought it was good for us. It’s to meet consumer demand. And so if you want to make be part of this change, it begins with awareness. And then it begins with making better decisions at the checkout at the register, right? And demanding that you know that you don’t buy that stuff. And then it doesn’t get sold. And then they either put something else on the shelf or someone else does. And so so that’s the way change occurs in our society. It’s through conversations like this. And then and then action by the individual. Yeah,
Lauren 1:07:39
L
yeah. So powerful. So I want to talk about the testing. So if we see something, feel something, smell something something, or if we’ve had, I don’t know, rain or something fell on our house, and there’s been an exposure. How do we test? When do we test?
Jason Earle 1:07:58
J
Yeah, so obviously, anytime that there’s water damage, you know, the key to the stuff is you got to move quickly. 24 to 48 hours is the is what the EPA says. And then the industry standard for mold remediation says anything that gets wet and stays wet, that’s porous and absorptive, that stays wet for 72 hours has to be treated like mold, whether you see it or not. So it’s a very short period of time, by the way, insurance will pay for water damage, but it doesn’t pay for mold.
So if you have homeowners and this is an event that you need to deal with, this is something you do not want to wait for, because the prices go through the roof, and it’s a cash pay on the mold side, on the water damage side insurance will almost will pay almost like the replacement cost of your building. But you got to get to it fast. So that’s a word to the wise here. Now, let’s say that you’ve gotten the musty smell, right? Yes, something’s happened, right? You see something, you smell something, you feel something?
What do you do? Well, first of all, you want to find the source of moisture, and you want to test the air to see whether or not you’ve got high spore counts, which would indicate that you’ve got actual airborne mold in the building. And this is this is a really important, especially with symptoms, because a lot of people will have sort of, you know, especially if they’ve got upper respiratory, they’ve got you know, any sort of any sort of acute reaction to the building that air testing is the first line of defense. So we we have a test kit that we sell, that uses spore traps, which are the these round, precision-engineered cassettes that capture the airborne particles.
And so we created an air sampling pump that duplicates a professional pump. So if you want to have your assets right now and you call it a professional, they come over with, you know, all sorts of tools and equipment, flashlights and moisture meters and infrared thermal imaging, hopefully and, you know, maybe you’re lucky to get them all sniffing dog which is which was my favorite tool. But then after that inspection, then they’re going to want to do some testing because of course you can’t assess this with the naked eye. And so they’ll pull out an air sampling pump on a tripod, and then these cassettes get placed on top and then the air gets dropped. onto the cassettes.
And then that gets shipped to a lab. And then Alam analyzes it. And so it begins with an outside air sample because mold spores, again, there’s how many 50 megatons of spores every year, right? So spores are abundant in our environment. So in their, in their welcome, but they should we, our indoor air should look a lot like outdoor air, our indoor air should look a lot alike, I’m gonna repeat that again, are you we want nature in your home, you want all the spores and all that good stuff from outside, you just don’t want anything growing in your house. That’s the big difference, right? So spores are okay to a degree, but no mold growth of significance in the building. And so the way you assess that is by an indoor-outdoor comparison, so that our test calls for an outdoor air sample. And then indoor samples in the areas where you’re concerned. And so each sample is only five minutes.
So if you get a three-room kit, you’re done in half an hour. And most of the work has been done by the pump, it’s super easy. And, and our air sampling here of water here. So this is this is our cute little air sampling pump. This is $1,000 calibrated professional piece of equipment. And so these cassettes fit on fit on here. And you know, you have to take the tabs off like this, like so put on here on it for five minutes me and when it’s done, you put this back in the box that it came from, drop it in the mail goes to Europeans, which is the number one lab in the world. And then data analysis and you get a report back in three business days, color-coded, so you get a green, yellow, orange or red indicator types of mold found in what concentrations it’s all like it’s color coded.
So it’s it’s very intuitive. And then and then you also have some follow-up recommendations how to find an inspector in your area how to find a remediate or in your area, we have an e-book, which is filled with inspection checklists and FAQ is for people that are early on in their mold journey that we give for free, and some other self-assessment tools, stuff like that. So it’s a very, it’s not just what’s there, it’s also sort of a launching pad for next steps and for actions to be taken. And what we did was we decided to take all the bad parts out of testing and the other kind of junk science kits that are out there. And also made it really consumer-friendly. So our prices include lab fees and shipping both ways. They even send it with fresh new branding batteries.
So literally when you get the kit, you can test immediately there’s no nothing else to purchase, or pay for nothing else to wait for. And everything’s automated. So you never have to check to track down your results, which I know as, as, as functional health coaches, you know, you always have to, you often have to track where did it go? Before, you know, you don’t have that problem with us. So that’s the automated. And, we it’s important for me to say this too. We don’t sell this as a replacement for professional inspection. Nothing can truly replace a professional who’s got experience.
And you know, that’s just that’s not the point. This is really more like a pregnancy test kit. In the sense that, you know, you don’t need to go to the, you know, you don’t need to go to the doctor if you feel like something’s brewing. This is a cost-effective first step, it gives you the ability to test without having to get permission from people make scheduled appointments, deal with conflicts of interest, inviting the vampire into your home and might turn the data around and uses in a way that manipulates you into doing something you might not normally do like remediation without a proper assessment. So this is a safe way to quickly assess, you know, for a few 100 bucks, or one room kits or, or 199, two room kits, 249 Three room kits 299. So it’s bite size compared to 1000 or 1500 or even $2,000 for professional inspector. You can test four times a year for less than the cost of one professional inspection.
Renee 1:13:45
R
That’s amazing. Yeah, you’ve really like cancelled out the hurdles for a lot of people. And you brought up a point like people that are renting. I know, I think you and Freddie did a great episode more about the renting side of things, we can link to that. Because you’re not really allowed to maybe bring in an inspector in certain situations. So I love that this is just something so easy that anyone can do for a really good price.
Jason Earle 1:14:08
J
We designed this for people that are that are multifaceted too. So cognitive cognitively impaired. So these are really simple instructions. It’s very easy. People always think it’s gonna be harder than it, isn’t it? They always send me a note afterward and go so easy. Why did I Why was I waiting? Yeah, what was I waiting for? You know, it’s a lot easier than then like the VIOME test for you to prick your finger and bleed all over the planet like these are these are some of these tests have some gotchas. lancets are when people poop tests. I mean, they’re just pure joy. Right? So this is this is so much this.
This is not always a pleasant subject for people but at least we’re not scooping poop and bleeding all over the place. You know, like the results come back a lot faster than those tests to write. I mean, yeah, wait six weeks to get results with you know, we have priority mail return labels and it comes back pretty fast.
Lauren 1:14:56
L
But the effective
Jason Earle 1:15:00
J
but it is really designed for people that are, you know, renters or a market that’s completely unserved by the current industry. We also have a we’re starting to work on a program for expectant moms, you know, test your nest, you know, it’s a great, simple thing for people to proactively do. Because it would be so nice if people would proactively do this. But most people come to us when there’s a problem, and there’s already fear and there’s already concern, right?
So what I’d like to do is get people to be proactive, but that’s not the American way to kind of wait for the pain point not to wait for the pain point. So pregnant women are experiencing different kind of pain. It’s called anxiety. And so so they, they’re, they like this idea and so hopefully you can get some generational awareness to around it, which is kind of the other bigger picture is to get people talking about this thinking about this in a way that doesn’t always necessarily have it’s not in shrouded in fear and anxiety. And so that’s the idea is to get this to people because you know, the biggest problem with this whole space, biohacking indoor air quality, environmental health, even just healthy living is that it is freakin expensive. You know, if you want to get good food, man it is it is. It’s a lot, right? I mean, think about what that wonderful woman who give a keynote at dragonfly, her Irfan,
Lauren 1:16:22
L
I think her name was Oh, yeah.
I think her name was Oh, yeah.
Jason Earle 1:16:25
J
She she delivered such a beautiful piece about you know, she talked about the the blueberry the blackberries, remember? Yeah. Oh, just broke my heart. It was she was she hit us like a sledgehammer.
Lauren 1:16:36
L
And we’re all by Earth ring. Device. Yeah,
Jason Earle 1:16:41
J
and so we’re so focused on these, these, you know, these expensive high end solutions. And really, what it comes down to is, people need to access to reliable data, they need to be able to breathe clean air, drink pure water and eat nutritious food. And that should never be cost prohibitive. That’s my my philosophy, these are basic human needs. And so basic human needs should be accessible to all. And so healthy living should not be should not be a budget issue.
And, and if we can get that straight, then you know, then a lot of people will rise out of poverty, because I think a lot of poverty is driven by poor indoor air quality and poor nutrition. And, and you can even if you if you go all the way through it, you can even say, you know, the mom who’s got who lives in the Bronx, he’s got an asthma at single mom who’s got an asthmatic kid, the kid has an asthma attack is the ER, she then has to go to the hospital, she’s gonna leave her job, or she’s making 12 bucks an hour, she’s gonna get fired, if that happens a couple times. Next thing, you know, pop, the poverty cycle continues. And next, you know, there’s crime because they gotta pay the bills. And so then that becomes a generational thing. And so you could even argue that poor indoor air quality leads to crime, right?
I mean, it’s it goes all the smoly schools, kids can’t learn teachers can’t teach. emotional dysregulation is a very common byproduct of, of mold and poor indoor air quality. And so you know, if there’s just so many, the impact in our society is so massive, that, that, you know, if you could if we could just get this stuff accessible. And the knowledge now is accessible. Everyone’s got even homeless people have iPhones you ever seen down the road? You see that? Right. So the digital divide is no longer right. But but now we just need to give people the access to the tools and knowledge. And so that’s what I’m here for. Yeah.
Lauren 1:18:26
L
Well, thank you for providing the service and such a great gift and for opening our eyes. I’m just curious, real quick. Can you do kind of a brief overview of the cassette difference from an Urmi tests or a mold plate, which are kind of the other consumables that people know about?
Jason Earle 1:18:41
J
Yeah. And you might also find that if you sample the other part of that stool that you might not necessarily have the same microbial profile. So, so this is it goes back to the mycotoxin test, you tailed some oats at the top of the bag, or to the bottom of the bag, you might find that it you tailed some oats at the top of the bag, or to the bottom of the bag, you might find that it looks like different bags of oats. So these things are not homogenous. They’re not evenly distributed. So the petri dishes are problematic for that reason. The other reason is that because they grow, they always grow, they’re always positive, unless you overheat the vacuum and over filter your house, and then you’ve got a false negative.
The truth is that all they do is show you, they just show you that there’s this spores in here, they also only grow the fastest-growing molds. So the molds of greatest concern for most people that are indicative of water damage issues. And they also happen to be the toxigenic species don’t grow on the kind of Agere, which is the solution that’s at the bottom of the dish. It’s like a sweet solution. It’s actually called malt extract, Agere. It’s made from, you know, fermentation from beer, really malt extract that molds that like their water damage molds, like the cellulose, which is what our balls are made of. And so it’s a slow-growing thing. So you’ll never get the kind of moles that everyone’s worried about growing on those dishes they’ve sent out.
They, get overgrown by the fast-growing ones that land first, that are ubiquitous and abundant in our world. So they’re complete junk science, there’s zero value, all they do is actually create fear and anxiety and confusion. And we need less fear, anxiety and confusion around the subject matter. So petri dishes are not good Urmi I wrote a piece about this. And I can drop that in the chat. And that is one of my favorite conversations. Because Urmi is a 21-year-old test. That was not even a test. It’s an it’s a it’s a research tool that was developed by a couple of EPA staffers. Here’s the early pace in that chat. The if you think about 20 years ago, genomics, think about genomic DNA technologies, has anything improved faster than DNA in 21 years? I mean, seriously, like the work that’s being done with genomics, it costs a billion dollars to do the first DNA decoding.
When Craig Venter did it, and now it costs 99 bucks. Right? That was 20 years ago, for me is 20 year old technology, and has not been updated. It’s called MSG PCR. It’s a mold specific quantitative polymerase chain reaction. And so this is the PCR part is what we’re used to from from COVID is very good at finding a single organism, but it’s not going to counting the organisms, it’s good at telling you be present or not present. And so it doesn’t enumerate well. Yeah. And, and, and it’s also the test itself. It’s called Environmental relative Moldiness. index. So that what you’re talking about as a test is really an index that looks at 36, molds, 26 of which are, are considered to be indoor molds, which is not really true. And then 10 are considered to be outdoor background molds. By the way, all molds or outdoor molds. There are no indoor molds, like to grow indoors, but they’re all outdoor molds. And they happen to grow. Some of them like to grow indoors. And so so this analysis looks at these three, six molds. Well, where did they come up with these 36 molds? Well, it turns out, if you go under the hood, you’ll find out that it was from 32 homes in Ohio. This is not a geographically diverse data set.
And they and then they took it in, they use that same tool and 1000 homes 1089 homes for HUD study EPA HUD study, and that’s what they talk about is 1080 on homes that were that they did this analysis on. And they found a correlation between that between higher scores and asthma. I mean, no shit. Pardon my French, but like, that is not rocket scientists say there’s high there’s, there’s mold counts, doesn’t matter what kind of molds and you have asthma. I mean, come on like this is you don’t need to spend government money or any money on that one. And so the problem with Ermi also is that it is wildly high. Because if you’re looking at dust reservoirs in the corner of a house now if you’ve had a house for more than a few years, you know gravity works, spores settle out of the air. If you’ve ever opened your witness stuff comes in and settles out.
And so the fact that you have spores in your house does not mean you have growth in your house. And the reason we are our spore traps are different is because we’re looking for airborne spores and high concentrations relative to the outside. We’re not looking for a pocket of dust in the corner where you’re guaranteed to have spores accumulating and you’re guaranteed almost especially if as has been around for a while. Have some of the molds that are that are that are considered toxic Genet because they grow outside, you know, and they come in. And that’s just the way that’s the way it is. Right? So, so they tend to be very, very high. Urmi is alarmingly high. And a lot of people say I use me but I don’t use that index. Well, that is that is it, it is called the environmental health of moldy this index.
So if you’re not using the index, then why are you doing that test? And so it’s junk science, it’s junk science. And and, and I can tell you that it’s junk science, not just because of the things I just said, but I have gone into hundreds of homes following a high Urmi with mold sniffing dogs, infrared thermal imaging cameras, and all the high tech gadgetry, lots of testing. And I was only able to verify about 10% of the homes with much higher Urmi scores, with conditions actual conditions present in the building that would be commensurate or that would that would, that would, that would, that would line up. And so my, that’s a big reason the petri dishes in the Urmi are a big reason why I created the test kit was because so many people are freaking out over the results from from these two methods, that I had to be able to introduce a professional method at an affordable price.
So they can at least get a gut check, you know, and, and, and stop buying this thing. And the other problem with this, and this is this is some word to the wise, anyone who’s been down this road will will know exactly what I’m talking about. If you get it mycotoxin test, and then you your practitioner will often say you better get your house tested. And then there’s a couple of really unscrupulous companies out there whose name I will that will remain nameless right now, but charge like six $8,000 to do an inspection. And they’re using Urmi.
And then they’re friends with these very unscrupulous mold remediators again, who’s who will remain nameless right now who want to charge $100,000 to rip a house apart, including replacing HVAC systems, which never, I’ve never had to do in 21 years, and I’ve killed a lot of sick homes. And so so so what you have here is this high reading that’s actually coming from food most of the time from the mycotoxin urine test. And then they go in and set this up. That’s that’s arguable that is not building related most of the time that there are cases, very visibly moldy environments where there’s a lot of particles and there’s a lot you can you can you can absolutely breathe in mycotoxins, but this is not most of the cases. When I say most, I mean 95%, probably. And then, and then you do the Urmi. And well, that’s always high too. And so that ensures a next step. It’s a gravy train, of conflation, where you take these ideas and stack them up, and they seem logical. But the science underneath does not support this. And so that’s that’s what a lot of people are getting into lives destroyed, and they can’t they figure why am I not getting better? I’ve done all the remediation, spend all this money, I’ve done all this stuff?
Well, because you’re eating it too, you know, and also, you’re living in a voc written place. And a lot of these remediators are using chemicals instead of cleaning. And they’re not following industry standards. So they’re actually adding chemicals to a building instead of Yeah, that’s a really good question. So. So I kind of classify these things into junk science and real science. So petri dishes have a place and had a place before, especially before next generation, next generation sequencing like DNA sequencing. And so petri dishes will grow mold. That’s what they do. They grow bacteria, they grow microbes. Because molds are ubiquitous, right? There’s spores everywhere. The fact that additional grow mold does not indicate that there’s a problem and indicate the life lives and that that mold is a normal part of our environment.
And because there’s no outside reference sample, and also there’s no way our sports sport traps and air sampling is done using something called volumetric comparison. So the volume and then the metrics so we the volume of air and then the fixed volume of air and then a comparison between those. A petri dish doesn’t have any such meter that shows you how much air was was exposed to or how much air this dish was exposed to. And so you’re depending on gravity to act uniformly and deposit particles onto a dish at that somehow or another indicates that that’s that’s indicative or representative of all the air They’re in that space. And this is just this is, this is not true. It’s kind of like a stool test, just take a little teaspoon. right, so adding insult. Yeah.
And so this, this is a really, really troubling thing. This, this is the kind of stuff that literally keeps me up at night, why people call me with these terrible stories, and it just breaks my heart. You know, they’re spending, they’re borrowing money to remediate a house where there’s never been any mold found. They’re just choosing mycotoxins people are doing dust dust tests to find mycotoxins and you find so you’re going to find it. But that doesn’t mean you’re breathing it, you know, presence does not equal exposure, these are not radioactive particles that are going to affect you from a distance, you have to have direct exposure to these things in significant amounts.
Now, if you’re really sensitive, that’s a different conversation. But even so you still have to have physical contact with this stuff in a fairly significant amount. Because we were on a mold planet, you know, so you’re seeing every time you go outside, you’re breathing and hundreds or 1000s of spores, every single breath with most of the time without any ill effect. And so, so the same thing should be happening in your indoor environment. And, and, and without any ill effect. So, so it’s very complex, in contrast to the petri dishes and Urmi. Our test uses evidence of airborne spores direct, this is what you’re breathing, right?
Not from the dust in the corner of the building that may have been there for 25 years, you know, big difference, right? There’s a historical record there that could be useful if you want it to, you know, look for other stuff, including like allergens, like pests, cockroaches, and you could find a lot more there, but the stuff that they’re looking at is 36 molds and by the way that I mentioned that there’s 100,000 species, you know, 36 now Our today’s today there’s something called next generation sequencing, shotgun testing, we’re developing a dust test to answer to this because everyone asked me about Urmi. And so with a single dust sample, we’ll be able to look for all known microbes for the same amount as an Urmi, all known microbes.
So that means all bacteria and fungi, so we can actually, and we’ll classify them according to the water damage activities. So we can see on a color coded basis whether or not there’s a high concentration of certain microbes, which is usually a red flag. And if there’s a high concentration of water loving bacteria, called actinomycetes. And what are loving fungi that are growing together, if there’s high concentrations of those two, that means something not a high Urmi score, if you’ve got a suite of microbes that love moisture, and there’s a high concentration in your dust relative to the other microbes, red flags, right.
But based on these 32 homes in Ohio, 36 species, none of which have actually been proven to be a really serious problem in and of themselves. It’s junk science, junk science as best and it basically occupied a vacuum because at the time when it was popularized by Dr. Richie Schumacher, the former Dr. Richie Schumacher, who promotes who promoted Urmi and hurts me to at the exclusion of all other data points. They, there was no other really, there was no other reputable test method, you know. And so it’s time that was cutting edge science, honestly. But it hasn’t been a pleasure.