The Shadows Podcast
Mon, Oct 24, 2022 10:39AM • 1:06:43
Summary from the host:
This week Jason Earle joins the Shadows Podcast! Brian is the Founder and CEO of Got Mold and MycoLab USA. You won’t believe the unbelievable story he shares with our listeners this week on the Shadows Podcast
mold, parents, thought, home, shadows, started, dad, day, podcast, wall street, father, basement, felt, mom, bunch, moved, live, stockbroker, good, book
Yo, what’s up? This is Joe from the llama lounge podcast a proud member of the Lima Charlie network. If you are interested in listening to diverse conversations about all things life, Learning and Leadership between leaders and experts in the military as well as across the civilian industry, follow the llama Lounge on all podcast platforms and llama leadership on all social media outlets and visit our website at llama leadership.com New episodes post every Tuesday. We cannot wait to have you join us. In the meantime, be safe, stay healthy and keep growing llamas out
Hi, my name is Angela winter and I’m a PME instructor for the United States Air Force. And I’m also a guest on season one episode four of rises shadows and you are listening to the shadows podcast.
All right, I want to welcome everybody to another episode of the shadows podcast. I’m your host Jeff Bowden Eimer and today I’m joined by Jason Earle. He is the founder and CEO of one 800 Got mold and micro lab USA. Sir, welcome to the shadows podcast.
Great to be here Tripp. Thanks for having me.
I’m really excited to have you on here and to talk to you we connected a couple of weeks back had a really good conversation kind of prepping for this episode. But just loud listeners know like where are you located at?
I am in sunny balmy Minnesota.
Do I have this thing called pollen?
When when we don’t have snow on the ground get a lot
of pollen. Yeah. I said if my kryptonite would be pollen if there was if that was the one thing that would would break me down like it is before we recorded actually had an appointment this morning to get some medication stuff. So I’m I’m a warrior on here today. Fighting through my Zyrtec and nasal spray
can be brutal. It can be brutal. How’s the
weather right now in Minnesota?
We have freezing rain. Wow. Yeah, now it’d be real it’s we had a beautiful knee jerk. Couple of days that gave me the notion that spring might be coming soon. Followed by snow and not having rain. So no not not yet. We’ve still got a little ways to go here.
Nice going into April with some snow.
No doubt about it. Yeah. Well, we’re gonna go ahead
get you started with some rapid fire questions. First one for you. Go to music to listen to
depends on the day in the mood. It depends on what kind of what I’m trying to what kind of environment I’m trying to create for myself you’re working on now 90s grunge Pearl Jam. Yeah, tempo the dog good stuff like that. Lately I’ve been getting into it’s it’s not quite music, but it’s not quite not music for working I use n del n d e l it’s an app and it’s and it’s based on it works off of your, your, your personal details, your location and the circadian rhythms and you’ve got various different options. It’s what binaural beats, it’s essentially brainwave entrainment. But it’s got really interesting musical components to and and it’s been proven to increase productivity. So I tend to go to that often, there’s a focus setting, which is this enhanced binaural beats. And that has been, I mean, to say life changing, I would say it’s been life enhancing for sure. My productivity increases dramatically. And I’m able to really get a lot a lot of writing done without feeling well, it just gets me focus. It’s really pretty compelling stuff
in Dell is that we do C and D L
it’s an app and there’s there’s a page feature too. I have no no relationship with the company. I am not compensated for this. This, this plug but it has been amazing. My, my better half and the other room. I often hear it going in her office too. So I’m definitely sharing the wealth on that one.
So I had to break away from the Beethoven music that I listened to when I’m studying. Alright, you have a plane ticket. You’re anywhere that you’ve never been. Where would you go? South Pacific Fiji.
Any one of those islands far away from a major continent? Just get away? Just just some silence and yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, where I am here. You know this I love I love a lot about living in the northern climate. I’m from New York, New jersey. And we’re up here did it COVID But, but it does make you appreciate the sunshine in the ocean just a little bit more.
Yeah, I could imagine. And book recommendation and that’s a step behind you.
I do I do. fascinating book that I recently read called never home alone by Rob Dunn. It’s a, it’s a, it’s hilarious. And it’s eye opening. And it’s basically all about the critters that live in your house. And, of course, I’m a mold an indoor air quality guy. So I’m interested in all things microbial, especially when it comes to indoor, but he does a beautiful job of, of telling the story of, of, of, of, of our homes, and really the sort of nesting ecologies within it and how we need to be more cautious and about how our use of chemicals, and encouraging diversity and not being afraid of spiders and all that good stuff. And so that’s a fascinating book, there’s another book I am absolutely enamored with, that I recommend to everybody right now, which is called the entangled life. And it’s a it’s a beautiful tour de force about the kingdom fungi. But macro fungi. In other words, mushrooms primarily not necessarily molds yeast like that, like I focus on. And it’s written by Rupert Rupert Sheldrake, son, Merlin Sheldrake and, and it’s absolutely fabulous. And fundraisers getting a nice a nice boost recently because of you know, plant medicines and things like that. And this book on the on the, on the heels of that gives people a really fascinating and entertaining view into the scientific and non scientific aspects of fungi, which is I would argue, without fungi and this is in arguable without, without macro fungi, our world would be awash in dead things. We need that stuff and and that book does a fabulous job of of laying it all out.
So number one alone, the entangled life, we’ll have both of those books listed under our book recommendations. On our website. I will say, I could have a spider walk across my arm right now. And I don’t freak out. But a lizard from the front porch walks across my arm and I would lose. I don’t know why. That’s funny.
Where are you located? Alabama? We you guys had lizards? Oh, yeah.
Yep, there’s there’s a whole colony of them outside of my out front porch. And my wife knows that too. And my daughter and I last night, we’re actually going out to get ice cream. And we walked out on the front porch. My daughter walked out. And my wife said, A be mindful lizards are coming back and I looked on the door and I saw one. And I just slammed the door with my daughter standing right there on the porch. And I went through the garage. So yeah, pollen lizards just not made for me. I’m more I guess Minnesota than Alabama. All right, next question for you. Sure. What would this would be interesting, because we haven’t even got into your journey yet. What would 15 year old Jason say to you today? Well,
what would I say to him? What would he say? Oh, yeah,
what was changed? What would 15 What would you say? to 15 year old version of Jason There we go.
It’s all gonna be okay, brother. Yeah, yeah.
Last question for you. Interesting fact that a lot of people don’t know about you.
When I first met, I did not know that was something so yeah.
Yeah, it’s a it’s a it’s I used to rescue people that doesn’t work out. Well. I rescued a bunch of animals. That’s pretty rewarding. I find the plants are remarkably rewarding in rescuing them. And I never intended to do this. It’s just I tend to whenever we move, for whatever reason, the the prior for in Manhattan, we moved into an apartment there were a bunch of orchids that were dying. And I felt compelled to to rescue them and bring them back to life. And I have and I’ve got in the house that we live now. As we were walking through, you can see that there are just house plants there that weren’t boxed up. And so inquired next, you know, we’ve got a whole kitchen full of those plants. And so we just continue everywhere we go. We seem to accumulate these things, but it’s my job to end my my chosen responsibility to take care of them. So we have a little bit of a pretty diverse jungle of the succulents and the various various plants of different sorts of avocado trees and you name it in our or kitchen. Jumanji? There’s something rather Yeah. You know, Jurassic Park like about it.
Yeah. That’s awesome, though. All right, so you survived our five rounds. And that is presented by one of our partners giant worldwide. So definitely check them out giant.tv forward slash shadows. But sir, now let’s go ahead and jump into your journey. Talk to us about your upbringing, where did you grow up what your parents do? What was it like as a child for you?
If you’d asked me that 10 years ago, I would have a different answer. If you asked me that. 10 years before that I would have had a different answer. My childhood was you know, classic, dysfunctional alcoholic. 1970s, early 80s. You know, Mary Karr, the memoirist says that, you know, any family that has more than two people is dysfunctional. That’s how you define it. And I tend to agree with her. My family kind of perfected it, though, my both my both sides alcoholic, my grandparents and generations back, you know, and my parents were very active. And we lived in central New Jersey, on a little hobby farm slash non working farm where we essentially rescued animals and we had five acres and was surrounded by cornfields and soybean fields. And actually, for me, when I look back at it, I look back at it, I think it was a fabulous childhood, quite frankly, I was I had a lot of freedom. My parents, I was raised by wolves. They were not really around that much. I mean, they were around enough, I was a latchkey kid, and I really, I look back at my childhood very fondly. Then again, it was the it’s the best one I ever had. You know, so what do I have to compare it to? The guy across the street, I didn’t have an option to live his life, you know. So, but but I had a lot of animals I have a responsibility to it’s my job to take care of them. But but when I was really young, when I was around four years old, I suddenly lost a lot of weight in a three week period, and was having difficulty breathing. And they took me to the pediatrician who said, No, you need to take him to the hospital. And so they brought me to Children’s Hospital, Philadelphia, which is renowned respiratory clinic. And based upon my symptoms and my family history. They diagnosed me with cystic fibrosis, which was devastating, especially back then, because it was really a death sentence. And my father had four cousins who died of CF before the age of 14. So it hit very, very close to home. That was their worst nightmare. Really, it was their it was their biggest fear was that their only child would end up with CF. And of course, they didn’t have genetic screening or anything back then. So they just, you know, you just went with it. And so my dad said that they cried for the next six weeks. And then they were able to get an appointment for a second opinion. And thankfully, and I guess evidenced by the fact that I sit here talking to you 46 years old, they conclude I did not have cystic fibrosis. Actually, what I had was asthma compounded by pneumonia. And when they tested me for my for allergies, which was which is one of my formative memories, they put me in a papoose like a straitjacket for toddlers, but with the back exposed and then a drug grid on your back and they do these scratch tests and expose you to these various allergens. And so my dad just said that I looked like a ladybug. Just red swollen back with that all over it. I tested positive for every single assignment estimate for Wow, every single thing grass, we corn, eggs, dogs, cats, cotton, soybeans, that means sheets, clothing is itchy. It was itchy to me my whole life. I was itchy. My whole childhood itchy.
How did that affect you? Like in the farm area that you had?
You know, I did. I look back at this now and I have very few memories of actually being uncomfortable. Isn’t that funny? I have a very, very poor, I have a terrible time recalling pain. And it’s been it’s led to me making many mistakes many times the same mistake many times, you know, I have a very favorable memory when it comes to things I just, I just I forget those those things there. But I can remember feeling better, but I don’t remember necessarily sufferings per se. I remember having to take the medications I remember. You know, I remember people being scared around me more than me being scared, which is interesting. But you know, I actually felt better outside. Which was interesting because I was surrounded by soybean fields and cornfields and grass and you know, I mowed the lawn I took care of the animals and I was exposed to all these things constantly. But it wasn’t really until I was indoors that I felt like this. I remember feeling weighed the stress the brain fog Things like that I remember feeling like heaviness in my lungs when I was in the basement, never connected it until, you know, to, to the built conditions of the building until much, much later, where, you know, after the career on Wall Street and you know, reading some articles and some pieces of the puzzle kind of fell in place. But you know, the house we had, so the dark side of all this, we’re on the shadows podcast, I’ll tell you since my parents were so dysfunctional, and so, so sick, really, I truly they were both suffering from various forms of undiagnosed mental illness. But the dogs and cats ran the house, and they would just shit and test all over the basement, and no one cleaned it up. And we even had a well in the basement and years later, I said, What were you guys thinking? And my father said, we weren’t, we weren’t. And he said, I just have nightmares that we’d have a flood in the basement because we had water in the basement, we had water. So I was a moldy, he said he was worried about a flood in the basement, which would wash all of feces that were dried up and crusted on the floor, into the well into the well, and he worried about that, but never took any action on it. And, you know, he’ll probably listen to the show and probably shake his head. But you know, but the reality that was the reality, that’s just the way it was and, and indeed, they beat the relationship there their dysfunction in terms of how they interacted with me and with with themselves, you know, you could see by the concentration of feces, you know, going up that my mom’s mental illness declined. It was it was like a FICO FICO index, you could come up with it, to see the concentration per square foot, it started moving on to the first floor until the end, I couldn’t have friends over most of my childhood, except for a couple of people that I just felt secure about. You know, we I lived in a wealthy town. And that was that was a very significant source of shame. In my life, it was like they had a financial insecurity around that the embarrassment of the hygiene, we didn’t have hygiene, we had low G, you know. And so, so that was my childhood. And then when I was 12, my parents split up. And I moved out, and all my symptoms went away. Most of my respiratory issues just faded. And I never thought about it again, really until many years later, again, as I mentioned before, which we could talk about later, but the My grandfather had grown out if his asthma and so they just chalked it up to that. And who knows what else I mean, you’re living in an environment like that where you’ve got just all that stuff going on. You can bike it, blame it on mold, you blame in a lot of things, but it was just a such an allergen stew, you know, bacterial disease, you know, how could anybody not have respiratory issues? And
yeah, well back then it was probably just when you felt fine. It was he outgrew it or right well enough now. Yeah.
Yeah, it was just try it was just completely dismissed. Because you know, back then asthma was kind of a stigmatic. You it was a weakness, or your inhaler with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there was there was a lot there that no one wanted to really look at anyway. And of course, you know, wealth up, my parents also smoked indoors, including in the car with the windows closed when the asthmatic kid, not for lack of love. There’s just a lack of awareness. And that was, that was the 70s and 80s right there, at the back of my pickup truck. You
know, I was just, oh, I remember sitting in the backseat of a car. And my parents, we would drive, you know, to the next town over to go to the mall or what have you. But I remember, I could still smell the windows up smoking in the car. Still have no idea the impact it did to my lungs. You know, here here in my 30s what it what it’s done to me, but oh my gosh, that that’s classic 101 Parenting from the 80s and 70s and 80s. Yeah, completely. Didn’t think of it. You mentioned you moved out at 12. Where do you go at 12?
Well, my parents split up and so. So the I moved in with my father and my new stepmother, who was 20 years younger than my my father. He was actually was actually my dad’s intern at the newspaper, which the little local newspaper that they, my mom and dad had bought, and my dad had an affair with with his intern. And they went off and later got married and had two kids who were my two, my two half brothers who I adore. Our relationship is strange at this point, but I adore them. And, and I moved into that house. And then that was my, again, my, my dad had this relationship and, and I was you know, clearly not thrilled with it. But I had a little brother that emerged out of that and, and I really wanted to spend time I have an older sister who I didn’t get a chance to know from my mom’s first marriage. And so I’ve decided I want to stay there and that that became a real source of contention with my mother. She wanted me to move back in even though she kicked me out and we’re going to Central Jersey. Yeah, they only moved Chile moved about. My dad only moved about 15 miles away. What does he do after the newspaper after the divorce? Well, my mom was a nurse. And she always was she was either she was a nurse and a administrator at the local hospital, not a local hospital. It was the it was the local or regional rehab center for like, occupational rehab. And, and, and physical therapy, not not drug rehab. And I worked there actually, during the summers, and it was one of my first actual jobs on the books, was working at the, in the kitchen, there. But she I also volunteered there during the summers because she didn’t want me to stay home and burn the house down. But my mom was a nurse who and she was selfless in so many ways. And she gave herself to her own detriment. And so she she, oftentimes she worked, you know, two jobs or midnight shift. And my dad was a newspaper guy, always and except Except when he was this speech writer for the New Jersey legislature. So he was in, you know, local politics and three Martini lunches, and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so, it was my, it was a it was a it was it a typical sort of, you know, lower middle class existence in a semi rural area, you know, outside of major cities. And, you know, nothing too remarkable about it. I think, unfortunately, it was all too typical.
You mentioned you dropped out of high school. Talk to us about like, your mindset back then, like, what drove you to that? And then where did you? Where did what was your plan B once you did that?
That was the combination of, first of all, I was not really a big fan of school starting in about fifth grade. That was right around the time that my parents first had expressed interest in getting divorce and I and you know, people talked about divorce being a big deal. And, you know, back then I was like, can’t divorce more, you know, divorce s’mores, I don’t care doesn’t make a difference to me. I look back at it. Now it is clearly a major issue. For me, it was the you know, the dissolution of my of my parents, this is a major, it was a cataclysmic event. And I, I don’t think I give it enough credit back then. But I also had become bored in school, just bored. And so I around fifth grade, I started being in a rather difficult child. And that continued to get worse and worse. And when my parents split up and moved out, and then my parents, my dad moved into an actually a town next door, which is not such a great town, and didn’t have such a great school system. And there were a lot of troublemakers and I fit right in and I just ended up running with some some of the tougher tougher crowds and, and, and I was given a lot of latitude. Because that was, you know, it was my I was kind of unsupervised. And unsupervised, double also, anytime any type of restrictions put on me, I would just buck off of them. Buck Buck off of me, you know. And so anyway, when I was 13, going on 14 was when my my my my, my dad had his first baby with Sarah, my stepmother. And my mom wanted me to come back. And I said no. And we had a huge fight on the driveway, in front of my grandmother’s house. And she said, well, then if you don’t want to move back in, and fuck you, and everyone see you again, and, and I said, Well, fuck you too. And she went home and killed herself. So those are the last words that we ever said to each other. And, and my uncle actually saw that exchange, and to this day still blames me for that. I know, in my heart of hearts, that was her way of cutting ties, there was just always the last thing holding her. And I and I knew that instantly, and thank God, I was in tune with myself, I was experimenting with a lot of psychedelics at the time. And at the time, that that probably saved my life, quite frankly, because I was able to recognize what she didn’t recognize about the magic of the universe. And and how could you throw that away? How could you possibly how could you be so short sighted, you know, permanent solution to a temporary problem. And, you know, it was clear in retrospect that she was you know, the booze it was an it was an alcoholic suicide, she was an alcoholic. If she was not drinking, she was drinking liquid depressants, wondering why she wasn’t feeling good. And, you know, anyway, that that that one event was enough to knock me into a different realm of thinking. And then shortly thereafter, I was diagnosed with Lyme disease. Muscle not sure if I actually had it, but I was treated for it. And so that was another big round of antibiotics. And those antibiotics did more damage to my to my cognition and to my my god health that I could ever possibly imagine. I mean, it took me 20 years to get that back. But the combination of my mom’s suicide and the Miss missing school all So, the Lyme disease and all the antibiotics were just brutal. And I missed a lot of school for being physically ill. And then my general counsel, Trent’s, just, you know, I was basically dragged into the office at 11th grade, and they said, You’re gonna have to repeat your junior year, it was I was halfway through my junior year, and they said, You’re gonna have to come back and do this again, you’ve already violated the attendance policy. And I said, Well, I don’t think so. I think I’m gonna have to sign out. And so I told my father, I called my father from a payphone and told them I needed to drop out so that I could start working full time to get save money at the gas, working at the gas station, and get my GED, and start college and leapfrog this whole thing and start college a year early. And he said, Well, if you’re gonna do that, then I’ll support that. And he came down to sign me out. Wow. And that day, I went to the gas station. From school. I said, I was walking across the parking lot. And he said, Where are you going, I’m going home with you. And he was like hell you are, you’re a man that you’re gonna go, you’re gonna go to work. So I walked to the gas station, which was just a half mile down the road, and I told the owner, but I just I just dropped out and I needed full time hours, and she goes great, I can never lose her. And I was like, no, let me explain. I told her what I just told you. And she said, Well, in that case, this is your shift. Now she gave me the guy’s money, she actually fired a guy that was on the pumps that that moment. And he goes, I’ve been looking to replace this guy. This is your shift. And congratulations. And so I was like, Holy crap. This is amazing. So I was working great. I had great hours, I was making more money on tips, fix and tires and stuff. But that was basically I dropped out of school. And it was the, that was the most liberating feeling like it was in the way
of, of, of so many things. And I don’t think that’s too uncommon either. I might Yeah,
well, first of all, thank you for opening up in sharing that. And I’m so sorry, for your loss. I lost my father, when I was 11 years old. And one thing I want to out, there’s two things I want to unpack based off what you just talked about, first thing, you were talking about your mother’s suicide and my father, when he passed away, and I talked about it on my episode. But I would catch him breathing in a bag. And he would constantly he had this brown paper bag, he would pull out of his pocket, I’d catch him breathing in it. And I would always, you know, say like, are you alright? He’d say, don’t say nothing to your Mom, don’t say nothing. Your mom, she’s gonna freak out. I’m fine. I’m just having a little, it’s allergies, or he would blame it on something. And I saw him do this, like, maybe four or five times. And when he passed away, he had a heart attack. And when he passed away, I told my mom, I said, you know, I saw him breathing in a bag a lot. And it first it was like, Why didn’t you say anything to me about it. So I lived with that guilt for a long, long time. And my sister had saw it to my younger sister. And I know when she passed away, she was still hurting from that, because she had seen it as well. A lot of people go through situations, not necessarily the same situation as you, but similar circumstances where you say something, and then something ends up happening. And you live with that, that guilt. When was that moment in your life where you were like, Alright, um, I’m not going to continuously beat myself up over this, I’m going to understand this, like we were talking earlier as part of my journey. And who I am.
That one came fast. That was that was within two weeks, I had I had to straighten out that was that was remarkable. And again, I really do have to say, you know, not because it’s like the trendy thing now, but, but I do think that the the psychedelics that I was that I was using, rather than, you know, it was experimenting, but I look at that now and it’s sorted stuff out that I couldn’t have sorted out logically, you know, they there was there was a lot of denial around her death. I mean, I used to go to the grocery store, and I’d see her walking down the aisles and then somebody would turn around, it wouldn’t be her. You know, I used to call the home phone. I one point I thought we were I was being duped. I mean, for the first week or so I thought someone was gonna say surprise, you know, you know that your mind does these crazy things to to to soften the blow you know, but But I I was actually not even angry with her. I was relieved that her suffering had ended. And in many ways I was relieved that that was no longer going to have to deal with a lot of nonsense. I would do anything to have her back. If I could do it without rewriting history. In other words, if I could have a hug that would be enough one conversation, because it just yeah, just began I actually had a dream once in my 20s where I had that conversation. And, and and I woke up in the morning and I smell her in the room. And so as far as I’m concerned, I had that conversation with her, and I had the hug. And I’m at peace truly. Because for me to wish her back is to say that I wouldn’t want to be the person that I am, you know, to regret an instance of your life is to deny a part of yourself.
And then who would you be? Very true? Yeah, very true. And the other thing I was asked you to, you mentioned you, you called your father and you told him, you know, hey, this is my plan. This is what I’m going to do. And you had that support from him. How do you think your life would have turned out? If he was not for that? If it weren’t a completely different route?
Well, let me tell you something. If, if if the shoe had been the other foot and my mom, my dad had died, and my mom were there, oh, my god, she would have gone the same way. My dad’s a bit of an anarchist. You know, he, he prefers to take the path less traveled, or at least he prefers to, you know, he likes to see people. Take alternative routes. Yeah, I think I think he’s the rebel, the underdog, you know, he’s always been that kind of a guy, which I, which I appreciate and respect, you and I, you know, are very aligned. And I have to give my father credit, because I was such a maniac. And I’ve got two boys of my own. And I just hope karma doesn’t come back that I was such an amazing actor, I don’t know how he was able to maintain, to not try to control things and try not try to help me avoid disaster, he let me make my mistakes. And he’d let me become a man by making my mistakes. Not that he could have avoided them at all. But what he could have done a lot of damage to my decision making, or to myself, my internal compass, by having his voice in my head, instead of having learning how to have my own voice, you know, my mom’s voice does not dominate, or my dad’s voice, like so many people, they have their some voice in their head that tells them all that gives them all the shameful fearful thoughts. And I’m fortunate enough to have not had that kind of over parenting. You know, I had to make my own decisions about what I was going to eat starting when I was like in third grade. You know, so that just never never been an issue for me. And I’m grateful for that. You know, I’m scared. I’m gonna be too good of a father here by by normal standards, and actually not be a good father as a result.
Yep. I think the overparenting thing is huge. And I found myself a couple of times trying to protect my daughter from everything. And my wife is constantly that one, it’s like, you’ve got now it’s been more reversible, where it’s been more I’ve been saying, You need to let her get through this. You need to let her you can’t be the fixer. She’s got to learn something from this. Well, it obviously worked out for you because fill in the gap between get hired at the gas station you drop out, and then I’m not going to spoil it but you become a Guinness World Record holder. So filling the little the time in between.
It was a very short window actually, that’s one of the craziest parts is that I dropped out in January. And I by March had met a guy what he came in with a flat tire on his BMW. I again I was making more money in tips than I was in my hourly, I think it was $6.75 cent minimum wage. But because New Jersey, by the way, for for all the other 40 United States who might be listening in there, you cannot pump your own gas in New Jersey. So the gas jockey is like a career for some people real I was unaware of that. Yeah, you cannot pump your own gas. So when you work, so I don’t know if there was like a gas that they got, like a union effort there or whatever, some sort of, like back back woods, or, or back back room dealings. But basically that’s New Jersey, New Jersey has a lot of stuff like that. And, and so anyway, I was I was I was at the pump and the guy came in, he goes, I got a flat tire. Can you put some air in? I said, Sure, but there’ll be flat again. So maybe if you give me a few minutes, I can fix it for you. And he said, If you could do it fast, there’s money in it. And I said sure to drive over there. And I saw the nail sticking out and pulled the nail and plugged it in, put some air in it and said five bucks, and he slapped some cash in my hand and sped up. And I looked at my hand it was a $50 bill, which I thought was a mistake. I thought I thought he I thought he was gonna turn around and come back honestly, and I kept it. Then my small minded 16 I thought he was going to turn around and he didn’t. And two weeks later, I’d spent the money and I saw him again and I went up to him and I said Hey mister, I don’t know if you remember me. He remembered me he actually knew my name, which is like, you know, the first rule on How to Win Friends and Influence People, right? And he goes, Yeah, Jason right. You’ve got to fix my tire. And I said, Well, I don’t know if you realize he gave me a $50 bill for $5 repair, but, and he goes, Well, I didn’t have 100 I still feel like I maybe I owe you a favor or something like that. He goes, kid, you don’t get it. If anything, it was a good investment for me. I would have missed a meeting. So if anything, I owe you a favor. And I said, Well, what do you do for a living? He said, I work on Wall Street. I said, I would get me a job. And he goes, you only get in life what you ask for. So call me by 9am tomorrow. Don’t ever bother calling me at all. I was like, okay, so I grabbed a pen. And I started writing. I said, What’s your number? I started and I was gonna write it on my hand. And, and he starts laughing He was gonna fit right in kidney rolls up his sleeve yet stock quotes written all of his forearm.
Yeah, like, young Gordon Gekko.
I was listen, I was I was wearing dirty jeans. And you know, I was I was curious. I had no idea. I mean, I I, you know, I was curious about stocks, but I didn’t know anything about them. At the time, anyway, he ends up but you gave me his phone number. And I went home, I told my father and again, you know, supportive. He said, You know, if you don’t call, I’m gonna call for you. He goes, that’s that’s, that’s, that’s remarkable. Most parents would have said, watch out. That guy’s weird. What does he want with a 16 year old kid in a gas station? Right. And so, you know, again, I get to give my dad some credit for supporting that. That optimism. And he’s not an optimist. Neither one my parents are optimist. But there was something about it was okay, if I took the risk, but he would never have said he was qualified for that. That’s the way my parents parented, you can do anything, we have limits. So you know, I don’t know if they gave me an oversight over inflated sense of, of possibility, but I’ll take it. That’s, you know, it worked. But I did see the discrepancy there. I always saw the discrepancy there. And so, so I call them at 859, the next day, because I was concerned about that 9am thing, you know? And he answered and said, What are you doing today? I said, going to work. He said, where it’s at the gas station, he said, wrong answer. And I said, Can we do that again?
I like this guy. Yeah. He goes, What
are you doing today? Is it going to work? He said, where? And I said, What’s your address? And he said, at a time 310 floor, Xena see the scene a couple hours hangs up the phone and I was like, What are we gonna do? I did call out at the gas station. I had to call out right because I was supposed to go to her. And and I borrowed my my dad’s penny loafers and stuff toes, tissues in the toes and buttoned down shirt and a sweater over it and my finest pair of jeans for my wall street interview because I didn’t have a suit. And I flip flop. My wife
foresaw that, that biz casual
was way ahead of my time. Yeah. And it’s i i lived just down the street from a train station was about an hour away from New York, which is why I was seeing this Wall Street. Wall Street guy. Because he was commuting back and forth. And, and I went in and showed up and he goes, you showed up? And I was like, of course he did. And he goes kit you don’t get it man 90% of success, like 90% of success in life is showing up. And he’s like, you’d be amazed how many people don’t show up. Come on in. And he I didn’t realize it but he was the managing director of a company called Hannover, Sterling, which was actually would go down in history as one of the the most notorious boiler rooms in the 1990s Any stocks IPOs. And it was it was a notorious place that that was my taste first taste of Wall Street. And it went down in flames of of infamy is the biggest penny stock scam firm. At the time, it was right in there with like Jordan Belfort and all that stuff. I was there for about a year before I saw behind the curtain, but I was 16 I was turning I turned 17 When I was there. And they gave me this incredible like, behind the curtains because I was like everyone’s little brother, they all took care of me all these guys were just like, somebody’s kids were making half a million a month, a month. And they were in their 20s and they would, you know, drag me along like a little protege. And like and they were all just completely out of their minds they talked about it was it was a wild wild wild place. But about a year into it I saw behind the curtain and I realized that these guys are all gonna get in serious trouble and I realized at that point that what Wall Street really was and that was not Wall Street and I had a hard time leaving because people would leave that place and get beat up I mean if you do Google the company and you’ll see this Forbes fortune business where
it’s like your day to day like like coming in at that nine 5am
Fight Yeah, I was I was I was I was either on a 6am training or earlier at the time, and I would sit there and make 400 phone calls a day. Just just 400 phone calls a day cold calls. Yeah. Just calling up and talking to you know, calling businesses and talking trying to talk to the owners and trying to qualify them as potential investors and then eventually once i and and and then calling cold calling to sell them investments colon, colon and sell them stocks. If you were successful, if you got one person a day to say yes to you, that was that would mean that would that would mean that one out of 400 phone calls, which is a quarter of a percent success, a quarter of a percent closing ratio would make you a millionaire. That’s what I was taught. And so I just sat there and made 400 phone calls a day, people would say, you wouldn’t be amazed at what people say to you when you cold, call them eat, the amount of negativity that you receive is incredible. And it actually that whole thing led me back into bad habits. I stopped drinking when I was a kid. I started drinking back when I went to Wall Street, even though I knew was a family problem, but when in Rome do as the Romans, you know, but yeah, my day to day was insane. It was a hard six hours it gets be at my desk, ideally, before 7am And I would work off until nine or 10 o’clock at night.
I don’t know why I imagined like, legit Wall Street like the phone cords getting tangled up and totally the paper being passed back and forth and hands here and all this. It was still like that
back then. Greenco Tron? Yeah, we had like the you know, with the tickets were still manual. Clients had to call you to get started later on your, your calculator on my desk, there was it was all paper. And it was, you know, I looked back at that night I feel like a dinosaur. But you know, to see how well she’s turned into, you know, we used to go to the Florida New York Stock Exchange and people it was literally our open outcry. There were a ton of people that are now it’s a TV set. And it’s all digital, and it’s mostly, you know, automated and electronic. And so it dramatic change in that world. But I saw behind the curtain and I and I had a really nice career. I when I was 17, I got my series seven stockbrokers license, which is a very difficult exam, I was again, a high school dropout. So I wasn’t exactly like up on my study skills. And it took me a while to get to the point where I was able to actually go sit for that exam, but I was fortunate enough to pass it and I subsequently got a bunch of other securities licenses. And when I left them, I ended up seeing by seeing seeing what the rest of Wall Street had to offer. And I had a lovely crowd work for another was a total of nine years as a stockbroker. And last two years, I own my own firm, which was, you know, in my early 20s, with my high school dropout to, you know, owning a sock brokerage firm, and kudos, and, yeah, no, but it was amazing. But that’s also, that was also right around the.com bubble bursting. And, you know, the flip side of this, since we’re on the shadows podcast is that my, my, my drug and alcohol consumption had also reached a crescendo. And I was really self medicating against the guilt that I had, I think associated with the success that I felt was probably at the expense of my clients rather than in alignment with them. And that was something that was completely, it was a major existential issue for me, because my mom had really impressed this idea of service to, to the greater good, right, you know, the idea of contribution. And so that that ultimately was the end for me was was my success as it reached a crescendo. And my every, all my bad habits also got amplified, they say that too, right? If you, if you have more money, it’ll just make you more of what you already are. And at the time, who I was, was getting amplified, and it wasn’t a very, it wasn’t a very, I was not, I would say a very good person. And I would say I was conflicted. I was I did not have integrity in the sense that I was not integrated. Part of he was saying this pardon, he was doing this say one thing, do another disintegrating as opposed to being integrated, right. And so and so, ultimately, it disintegrated. It truly did the same way. You know, I was. And ultimately, that’s what needed to happen because it opened up the opportunity for me to be free and clear to listen and to be open to how I could be useful in this
life. And when you decided to walk away from that lifestyle, did you already know what you wanted to do next? Or were you still kind of searching for that?
A clue I dropped, I sold everything. Walked away from my my clients, just handed my book over to to my partner, and put 20 pounds of stuff in a backpack. And then September 11 happened, so I quit. And that’s September 11 happened. And then I hopped on a train in New Jersey, went through Canada to La so all the way across the country, but through Canada. It stopped a bunch of times and you know, enjoyed all of that. And then while I was in Hawaii, I was reading a story about a guy. I took a flew from LA to Hawaii. And as opposed to swimming, I should say we’re driving or driving, right? Yeah. But while I was in Hawaii, I read a story about a guy who got sick from the hotel where he was an employee. He was the moldy hotel. It was turned out to be a really moldy hotel. It was a $55 million mold problem, actually at the Hilton Clea tower. So it was a it was a major real estate major real estate news. But the story that made me interested me was about this guy that got sick at 40 years old developed adult onset asthma and sensitivities to all All these foods and things that he had never had a problem with. And I thought, jeez, that sounds a lot like me. But and, and he blamed it on the mold in the hotel. And I thought, Geez, I wonder if that was what caused my problem. So I called my father from a payphone, which probably isn’t there anymore, and said, Do you think we had a mold problem in Alton road? And he said, Of course we did. We had mushrooms in the basement. Why do you ask? He just laughed at me. And I thought so I said, Do you think the mold was was the cause of my illness? He goes, I couldn’t have helped. Again, you know, like, this is just it was it was just the way it was people think about mold. That way, still, sometimes do I call that generational ignorance, we still are thinking about this very clear health hazard as something like the musty smell, the basement smell, this is just a nuisance. It’s just the basement smell. No, that’s actually those are in many those industrial solvents, many of them are carcinogens. That is not just an aesthetic nuisance. That is that is an immuno modulating inflammatory popery of compounds. That is not something you should be breathing, it’s the beginning of decay, it is the external effluence of microbial digestion, you don’t inhale and other creatures, digestive gases, and then feel good. You know, it just doesn’t work that way. And so of course, I became fascinated in that moment, boom, it was like, that’s the light bulb. You know, when when I thought, this is fascinating. The buildings we live in can make us sick. That’s amazing to me, that it’s still to this day, is the thing that kind of gets me excited, because it’s an area where we can have control, we don’t have any control in this world, we really don’t have very little control, we think we do we want to we hope we can we try we try to force things with wishing and thinking and hoping we don’t have control over anything, except for a few things. The food you eat, what do you drink, and the air you breathe, and the air you breathe is only really when you’re in your own domain. And yet we exercise very little influence over that control. And it’s a shame because it’s a waste. If you can’t, if you can, you should, if you can exercise influence over over areas of your life where you can truly improve the quality, then you don’t do that. Well, that that’s, that’s that’s a shame. But and this is one of those areas where you truly can and I think I intuitively saw that right then in there. And I saw opportunities to truly help improve the quality of millions of people’s lives, that I thought endless opportunities will be there because it will constantly be the innovation. And there’ll be constantly new new science. And as I looked into the industry, I was shocked at how little there was out there how little medical research there was, and, and this is 20 years ago, and it was like 20 20,000 or 3001 2001 2002. I was in Hawaii. And it was yeah, it was it was a epiphany to say the least the light bulb went on. And it has just gotten brighter and brighter and brighter. You know, we all live we live on a water planet, we all breathe air. We all live indoors. And that’s my niche. target market is people who live in buildings and breathe air. You would have thrived
in Europe where we did not have AC and it was oh my gosh, the moisture and inside of the homes and yeah, and those places have been basements, wine cellars, all that good stuff. Totally. All those
old old buildings, but they do better because they’re not made of sheetrock. We have we build buildings out of paper mache. Yeah, mold loves to get that stuff. And so it’s modern construction, that causes such a unique sort of opportunity for for for multi proliferate.
So 2003 You got into the mold business and talk to us about got mold, like how you came up with everything that you came up with how you got that company started, like talk to us about the ins and outs of what you’re doing.
So when I came back from Hawaii, I was really curious about mold. And I actually was reading a newspaper and I stumbled onto an ad for a basement waterproofing company that was also advertising mold remediation. And this is before I could find even a mold remediation contractor. I was curious and I was looking to see if there were businesses doing this stuff. There were very, very few. They were mostly coastal Disaster Restoration, you know, flood flood, water damage, that kind of stuff. But these guys were, were compelling to me and I answered NAD and I and I went in there and it turns out they’re a bunch of stockbrokers which should have been the biggest red flag ever. But you know, they were they were going around selling people these repairs, basement basement and foundation repair, and also mold remediation. And at the time, there were no industry standards or even, you know, reliable guidelines. They were just starting to emerge New York City guidelines some other or some other DPA had a couple of pieces. But the bottom line is I saw that these guys were doing bad work and they were hurting people they were doing, they’re overcharging for repairs and not doing not removing mold and people were getting sicker. And I saw this being happening all over the industry. And so I got I fascinated by the industry, but also realizing, where’s my place here? And I thought, I began do you do it free inspections as part of the sales process, and I began getting pretty good at understanding what was going on with the buildings. I was researching these things at night and taking classes on building science and these kinds of things. And I realized that I could be an inspector, and and potentially build a business that would protect the consumer, from the contractors. And so and I looked at the other environmental hazards like lead paint, asbestos, and so that’s exactly how it’s set up is that there’s an inspector and there’s or mediator, and they’re never the same. And if you do that, if you do that, you can both you can insulate the consumer, and you can also deliver a lot of value. And I looked at this as a way for me to earn while I learned to because I didn’t really I didn’t have any business being in the business. I was just a stockbroker. Right, but I knew I could learn, you know, one thing you throw me in there, I’ll swim. And so I just got obsessed about it. And I heard about a guy that right around that same time that had trained mold sniffing dogs, it’s gonna ask, that is the craziest thing. Yeah, it might be brilliant. And, and so I ended up getting going down to Florida, finding one of these, talking to the guy getting introduced to the dog. And lo and behold, I came home with the dog $14,300 lightly used dog, she was two times on doggy death row. And so she she had 1000 hours of training, and it was Oreo. She was my partner for 12 years, and up but I got her before I even had an LLC set up before I even had any company name. I got her while I was still working at this waterproofing company. And he the owner called channels, exactly news like us can get some free press out of it. And they came in and they sent their consumer alert people to try to debunk me, I thought they were coming to it to do US News. They were coming to to shoot holes in me the hidden mold in the house. And we went in and within minutes found it. And instead of shooting holes in it, they endorsed us and I didn’t even have a business setup yet. And so we had some local doctors who saw us and referred some patients and a few of those were really dramatic stories of healing, which then levered into Good Morning America episodes. And then we got invited to do Extreme Makeover Home Edition and all sorts of newspapers and magazines. And it’s just been a, it was a it was an avalanche of media mostly because people wanted to see this rescue dog that helps sniff out him mold and buildings and fix sick homes. And that’s an evergreen story that every every reporter found compelling and to start a team is right. Exactly, no. And I played second fiddle to her with with, you know, graciously for 12 years. And she and I did 1000s of inspections together and we truly healed countless homes and families and it was really the most gratifying work that I’ve ever done. The backdrop on that though, by the way, is that we went to do some franchising I was all doing by the way I was doing all of this you know with while nursing a significant drinking problem. And I and I suffered from you know, what I can only call impostor syndrome the entire time because I didn’t realize that I was really living a double life I was selling health and not living in accordance with that, you know. And so that’s one 800 that that company went we call it lab results initially because it was Labrador retrievers and laboratory testing and I thought that was
a name that’s cool with especially why but then
we ended up turning into one 800 Got mold, which is another story for another podcast about how it got you know, the intellectual property and all that kind of stuff but but that ultimately we did a franchise we went through a franchising exercise which which which failed badly for various different reasons some of which that were in our control and some of which weren’t. And that that that forced me into a tailspin that was that I lost everything almost everything almost lost the business almost lost my my drinking accelerated I really turned upside down and and everything went to went to shit all my bank accounts went negative. It was it was a terrible time and I was really due to the great the graciousness of my Sarah my my better half gave me just too
much too soon or what do you think it was like what do you
know, you know if with the business what it was, is that I all my chips in one basket, oh my God, all I have no, there’s no diversity, this and that. At that time. I had I had, you know, I was all in. And, and what happened was I had invested heavily in this franchising exercise, and I had family invested. I had family working in the company too, including my father and my stepmother, and some of my close childhood friends, which is all the things they tell you not to do. And of course, you know, those rules don’t apply to Jason Earle. So I try it anyway. I gotta make that mistake for myself. And, and so when when we ran out of money because we I couldn’t raise any more money from investors we you know, I just I Couldn’t in good conscience raise any more money because we’d lost a legal battle to overturn some licensing requirements and Florida, which is where our headquarters was, which would make all my franchisees unqualified to be an inspector. So I was literally I got legislated out. And then I had a huge lease that we’d signed. And my first franchisee his kid as soon as he went home with his with his franchise vehicle is what 100 got molded van his wife took his kids ran away. And so he had a meltdown. It was just like a waterfall cascade of, of impossibilities, Florida legislation, my franchisee having his wife leave, rains, it pours, and then you know, couldn’t raise any more money. And so I just didn’t have anywhere else to go, I ultimately had to lay off my family lay off, everybody strained my relationships, strained everything. And, and I didn’t have, you know, I already had bad momentum. And so my drinking accelerated, mostly because I just had momentum behind that. And then the bottom falls out. And you know, that the if that’s the only coping mechanism that you’ve learned, you know, or one of your primary coping mechanism, that’s what you lean on. And thank God it did, because it accelerated. It’s what led me to ultimately get sober.
What it seems like it was starting off great. And then it’s, you know, there’s still a little Alabama saying, it seems like it was a little snake bit there for a moment. And you mentioned you were kind of downward spiraling. When was that light bulb moment, or that aha moment where you were like, alright, we’re starting to turn the direction here, where I’m getting over this, I’m starting to recuperate a little bit, what was that moment for you?
It was, it was a period when I I got sick and tired of getting sick and tired of being sick and tired. And that that was a cumulative thing. But it wasn’t until about six years ago. So recently, in the scheme of things, that, that I began making a concerted effort to do the rectal cranial inversion, and just pull my head out. And, and I had tried in half hearted ways, but I didn’t decide to engage, you know, community and, and, and, and formalized my efforts. And so that’s when that began. So I began developing relationships with people who, who didn’t have those bad habits and, and began examining things and reading, and it took me two years of solid work of trying to stop and not being able to, and it really humbled me. And it’s developed a physical dependence on alcohol, which is, which is, which is humbling to me, because, because it was never going to happen to me, it was going to happen to you know, I’d seen it in my family never gonna happen to me. And it happened to me. I did it to me, you know, and it was a, it was, but I look back at that now the same way I look at my, my mother’s suicide is the single most important thing of my life. The thing that I am most grateful for is the fact that I am an alcoholic in and I don’t even say I’m in recovery. If I started drinking tomorrow, I’d be an alcoholic again. So I know that lives with me. And that’s okay. That is not a stigma. That is a that is a it’s a it’s a stripe of experience on my shoulder. You know, I’ve got I’ve been there. I’ve been in the trenches. And same thing with my mother suicide is the same for me. Those are those are, you cannot take that away and the things that came from that can’t be taught. They can only be learned.
there’s ever a guest like exemplifies everything this podcast is about this is this is it right here. I mean, this is your story is a prime example of, you know how we can all learn from one another’s ups and downs and talk to us about you know, one 800 Got mold, you’re doing something, you’re kind of working here with partnering with the shadows, so tell our listeners about what they can find out if they want to inquire more.
Well, before Yeah, this this podcast is refreshing to me, because everybody wants to talk about my successes. And I’ve been fortunate enough to have, you know, many, but behind that is is a litany of failures. I mean, I am the just like Babe Ruth, man, I’m the strikeout came to, you know, a six I succeeded at Wall Street by 99 and three quarters percent of the time failing, and and not quitting. You know, I didn’t have I burned the ships. I didn’t have a place to go back to a lot of the rich kids that came and sat next to me that tried to do that would quit because they had somewhere else to i the gas station. You know, there are lots of reasons the reason why 100 I’m old is successful. The reason that my got mold is successful now is because I burned the ships. I didn’t have a way I set it up so that even with my failures, I was fortunate enough to be able to pull it out. And so four and a half, four and a half years ago, well, I’ll be it’ll be about four and a half years ago that I that I said, Well, the only way out of this is through, I want to bring my investors money. And I decided to, to pull it all together. And what the main focus was to was to figure out how we could take all the things we have learned through the one 800 Got mold inspection business, and turn it into something that could truly have the biggest impact. And the biggest shortcoming that are the biggest gap in the marketplace for consumers is, is an affordable way to test your air to see whether or not you have a mold problem without having to deal with trying to find and hire a professional that might either manipulate the data manipulate you, or cost a ton of money, because they’re expensive to have somebody come over and then also to be able to trust that they’re not going to try to convince you to do remediation that man, that’s the biggest gap in the marketplace was that and and so I put a dream team of scientists and engineers together that and partnered with the number one lab in the country, and we put together a do it yourself test kit that answers that need, that allows people to sample to take air samples using professional devices, but without the complications associated with professional devices and get a top accredited lab analysis from the from the number one environmental environmental microbiota in the country. And do that for you know, a few 100 bucks couple 100 bucks. And so that’s what we have with got mold.com. But we created a a welcome page for this podcast, and I’m pulling it up right now. Do you have that handy? Got more.com/shadows/cast? Yeah, we will have shadows, believers shadows, the shadows. Okay, God. So thank you for that. So got mold.com/shadows. And on that page for anybody who’s concerned about mold, there’s a an ebook there called the entitled How to find mold, which is a the easiest thing for you to do. As a first step. If you’re concerned about this, and you got questions about the subject. It’s it’s got inspection checklists, and a bunch of FAQs. And it’s, we get a lot of positive feedback about that. And then we’re also we also have a link to our test kit website, which is again, got mold.com. But you go to shadows, and you can see you get a 10% discount there shadows 10. Is that correct? So and so that gives you a 10% discount on on any test kit purchase test kits purchased with that link. And then if anybody wants to get in touch with me, you know, you can send questions to email@example.com. Any questions? I see those, you can also go to the gmail.com and scroll down to the bottom, where we have a little contact field. I see all of those also.
Yeah, definitely folks take advantage of this. I mean, I can tell you, personally and professionally, I have dealt with I’ve lived in places with mold, especially in hindsight looking back, like you were talking about earlier, the 70s 80s houses even 90s. And then, since I’ve been in I’ve you know different places I’ve worked at, it’s been a common issue as well. So definitely take advantage of that we will have all of the information that he just went over in our episode description. What that will let me ask you this question. When someone mentions you 50 years from now, what do you want your legacy to be?
left the world a little bit of a healthier place.
I can switch doing with the mold what you’re doing with the plants? What you’ve done with animals, I mean, doing some helping people out? I mean, you’ve pretty much covered everything there. And what finally, what comments do you have for our listeners out there?
Life is a package deal. You know, they’re everybody wants the glitz and the glam and they want the they want the accolades. But, you know, if you peel, peel the layers back, you’ll find that it doesn’t come without a price. And, you know, the the bottom line is that I really do think that we’re here to learn how to love and to overcome fear, which mostly means how to deal with adversity. I think that’s what we’re here for. And I think that if the misunderstanding is that this is going to get easy one day, it doesn’t get easier. You if anything you develop the tools to to navigate it more smoothly. You get stronger while the challenges get greater. And I think that if I could wish anything to anyone would be for Enough, enough adversity, enough challenges, enough insight enough so that you could recognize that attitude really is everything.
That’s good advice. I was just mentioned at someone the other day that we Do you often say if I can get past this one task? It’s going to be smooth sailing here. But no, if you get past this one task, there’s going to be another task and there’s going to be another task. And it may be worse than this one, but you will get through every single one of them if you saw about that mindset. Absolutely, sir. One more time, we’re gonna have an in app subscription. But tell everybody where they can find you at?
Yes, got mold.com/shadows is the best place to to find me. And again, you can go to you can email firstname.lastname@example.org. And you can go to the GOP multicam homepage, and there’s a contact form at the bottom there as well.
Well, I can’t thank you enough for taking time to do this. This has been an awesome episode, I would honestly say and I’m not just saying it to pander to my guests. But you know, we’re at the time, this is where at least we’re flirting with 80 episodes here. And just your story from top to bottom is exactly why we have this podcast here because there’s so many key takeaways that I think our listeners can listen to, and apply to situations that they’ve been in. So bottom, my heart, thank you for opening up. Thank you for being here on the shadows. I’ve really really enjoyed this a lot. So thank you, man. It’s just been great. Thank you for having me trip. Well, folks, that will conclude this episode of the shadows podcast.